Who became owner of property

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 01 December 2013 This query is : Resolved
Dear Experts.
A consist a Hindu family, father mother and sister, he bought a property by the fund of his father,after purchased the property Mr A died without intestate.
My question is after the death of son his father want to sell the said property, can he do so if yes how it is possible.

Regards
Thanks in Advance

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malipeddi jaggarao (Expert) 01 December 2013
If it was in the name of son, who died, father alone cannot sell the property.

Dr J C Vashista (Expert) 01 December 2013
The consent of all legal heirs of A shall be mandatory for disposing off the property

Guest (Expert) 01 December 2013
Sir first you obtain the legal heir certificate.Legal heir certificate must contain the purpose and you should include that inheritance of the above property also apart from other purposes like bank balances claims,jewllery claims etc.If he is a married person the priority would be given to his own family like wife and children and definitely parents and sister only if she is unmarried.If your client is unmarried no issues only parents and sister could be legal heirs and jointly all the three could sell the property Other wise his wife children and parents could jointly sell the property Though we claim that deceased had bought the property out of his fathers funds since there are no records it would be treated as self acquired only.

Dr J C Vashista (Expert) 01 December 2013
Engage a local lawyer for his/her professional addvise/service

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 01 December 2013
A lot of thanks Narshimma Ji and Jaggarao Ji to finish my doubt and confusion.
I agree with your advice.

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 01 December 2013
Can it is necessary to obtain permission from court for sell the property of died (bachelor)son?

Guest (Expert) 01 December 2013
Sir, it is not neccessary to obtain court permission.The buyer should be convinced with upto date EC and genuinity of the Legal Heir Certificate If at all the buyer insists he can give a 15 days public notice in news paper that would be more than sufficient sir.

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 01 December 2013
I appreciate your advice. again thanks for your support.

prabhakar singh (Expert) 01 December 2013
IF it is so that property was purchased by a registered sale deed in name of A who was unmarried and died intestate leaving behind him his father ,mother, and sister then according to hindu succession Act his class one heir would be only his mother and would be able to sale alone as his heir is my answer provided this property is not agricultural and not situated in UP.

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 01 December 2013
Thanks sir.

Guest (Expert) 01 December 2013
Dear Mr.Abdul ji You should make all the three Father,Mother and Sister as Legal Heirs and all the three could sign the sale deed.If you obtain the legal heirship only for mother ignoring father and sister you could be treated as you are committing an offence.

T. Kalaiselvan, Advocate (Expert) 01 December 2013
I differ with the opinions of Mr. Rao and Narasimha. A is a male Hindu and died intestate. He is unmarried. So the only class I legal heir is his mother who will be the sole person entitled to acquire the entire estates of the deceased as his legal heir as per Hindu Succession Act. Mr.Prabhakar Singh has rightly advised on the issue. To proceed with the property on the basis of legal heir certificate issued by the revenue department is absolutely waste and in valid before law. If the revenue department is including the father, sisters besides his mother as his legal heirs, it is wrong, further the Tahsildar/Revenue authority has no power to decide the class II legal heirs, only a succession certificate by the court will indicate the successors/legal heirs

Guest (Expert) 01 December 2013
I would prefer Experts give their Views with out comments.What I had advised is simple Legal Procedure only where the mother is also there in the legal heir certificate.The buyer would be more satisfied also when all the three signs the documents.How the LegalHeir Certificate could be treated as Waste as per highly learned advocate Mr.T.Kalaiselvan.Then please tell me whether the LegalHeir Certificate Procedures could be removed from govt.Then what would be the meaning of LEGAL heir certificat?

Biswanath Roy (Expert) 01 December 2013
Undoubtedly mother of the unmarried deceased son shall be the absolute owner of the estate even then father of the deceased son can sale the property taking signature of the mother as confirming party.

prabhakar singh (Expert) 01 December 2013
The author is also advocate and understands things equally.He appears to have asked only because of HUF concept among Hindus which has no relevance here in this case.He can read s.8 on his own and can also look into schedule of class I heirs and can find out himself that among CLASS I enumerated as
"Son, daughter, widow, mother, son of a pre-deceased son, daughter of a pre-deceased son, son of a pre-deceased daughter, duaghter of a pre-deceased daughter, widow of a pre-deceased son, 1son of pre-deceased son of a pre-deceased son, daughter of a pre-deceased son of a pre-deceased son, widow of a pre-deceased son of a pre-deceased son."
THE DECEASED HAS LEFT ONLY MOTHER.

He can very well capitulate Father is class II heir and excludes brothers or sisters.

He also knows when mother is owner then how any body else, may be a husband, can execute any sale deed without holding a GPA/SPA from her.
Hence i am not bothered too much about his quest.

Guest (Expert) 01 December 2013
For any buyer of the property of the deceased !.Death certificate.2.Legal Heir Certificate 3.public Notice in news paper would be more than enough.Mother is always there in the Legal heir certificate including father and sisterinthis case.Even due to some reasons the transaction does not take place still the LHC is a valid document in future also.

R.K Nanda (Expert) 01 December 2013
agree with experts.

Rajendra K Goyal (Expert) 01 December 2013
Well advised by the experts, nothing more to add.

prabhakar singh (Expert) 01 December 2013
It is not denied that Revenue Authorities can issue legal heir certificate(LHC) but it is denied that they would issue it against provisions of law in favor of trio father, sister and mother instead of only mother who is sole heir.In case they do so they would do illegality.

When one applies for LHC one has to tell the basis on which the claim is based.The claim based here would be on basis of section 8 read with schedule I of HINDU SUCCESSION ACT and then only mother's claim would sustain and not of father or of sister.

Guest (Expert) 01 December 2013
Dear Abdulji,Ihad already mentioned the purpose of LHC to be mentioned in LHC,And also for each and every purpose a LHC will not be issued seperately.With all other purposes this to be included as essential purpose.Once again I tell you the buyer will be more convinced when all the three signs it and the matter ends.Once again let me repeat the LHC would be issued only once and all the purposes to be mentioned in that itself.If the deceased legal heir is entitled to have a job in the organisation where he served is it not the Sister name should be there in the LHC when the Elderly parents cannot join the duty.For that reason how the Revenue Dept could be blamed obviously she is also legal heir.

V R SHROFF (Expert) 01 December 2013
Well advised by the experts, nothing more to add.

Biswanath Roy (Expert) 01 December 2013
Sorry to say query is "Mr. A died without intestate" which has been not considered by the Learned Experts in their opinions.

J K Agrawal (Expert) 01 December 2013
Dear Narsimnha Ji

Sadar Pranam

After practice of 25 year in Civil laws, I am unable to understand the meaning of LHC. In which law it is granted? Nor I understood that how all the 3 persons are owners of the property of deceased son. It is again mysterious for me that why a Notice in news paper is necessary? Which law requires it? If a combination of 'notice without any objection', a 'LHC' and a 'death certificate' is sufficient to make any one, a owner of any property?

If you mean 'LHC' by a Succession Certificate granted under section 372 of Indian Succession Act, I will politely suggest that this is some thing different and required only in some conditions and at a few places only in India.

If you are talking about the public legal notice as required under section 41 of the Transfer of property Act, I again politely want to suggest that it is also a different thing with different purpose.

If you think that a death certificate is a must in case of a suit for declaration I would again politely say that proof of death is required and not the Certificate strictly.

Kindly enlighten me more over your theory on which you are so firm, strict and confident.

I will be more obliged if you mention some citation of any law or judgment instead of your opinion, so that I can understand the things better.

We all are practicing lawyers only. I do not know any advocate who is not a practitioner but a 'Perfect Lawyer'. There is much scope with me to learn something new from you.

Please enlighten we all.

Guest (Expert) 01 December 2013
MY direct Reply is only to the Querists.And If some one is having difference of opinion or any other valuable suggestions they could directly post it to the querists.It is up to the Querist whether to accept it or not.They could contact the nearest Revenue Dept Or Thasildar Office to Know what is LHC is.Death certificate would be only an additional document.Public Notice is for the purpose of the buyer to satisfy himself to confirm no other encumberrance like any other sale agreement etc is executed by the deceased or Legal heirs.Never I said I am a perfect Lawyer neither boasted abot my experience.If sombody wishes to degrade me as if they praise me and if they are happy about it they are welcome.But what I had advised is Right and Practical and Valid ALL my advise is from the angle of the buyer only KINDLY THOSE WHO HAVE ANY ACADEMIC QUERY COULD POST A SEPERATE QUERY

Biswanath Roy (Expert) 01 December 2013
With due regard to my Learned friend Mr. J. K. Agarwal I need to point out that the meaning of the term "ADVOCATE" is a person who assists,pleads, defends or prosecutes for another which comes from the Latin word advocatus whereas, a LAWYER MEANS A PERSON WHO IS LICENSED TO PRACTICE LAW.If it is so what will be the meaning of 'PERFECT LAWYER'?

Dr J C Vashista (Expert) 02 December 2013
I endorse Sh. Parbhakar Singh ji.

Anirudh (Expert) 02 December 2013
I am a late entrant in the discussion on this query. Nevertheless, I find it quite interesting.

There is a subtle difference and nuance involved in what Mr. Prabhakar Singh and Mr. Narasimha are saying.

Mr. Prabhakar singh is absolutely right that ultimately in the given facts and circumstances the mother of the deceased alone will get the entire property left behind by her deceased unmarried son.

(Forgetting for a while whether the property can be sold now and by whom) The first question is whether the mother can get the property mutated in her name, simplicitor without the proper legal heir certificate? The answer is a plain 'NO'.

Therefore, one has to obtain a legal heir certificate from the Authorities concerned (normally the Tehasildar of the locality where the deceased used to live).

Now, while applying for the grant of legal heir certificate whether the applicant is obliged to show all the legal heirs of the deceased or not? The answer to this is to be in the affirmative, meaning thereby that all the legal heirs (whether Class I or Class II) of the deceased have to be mentioned in the application. Ofcourse the nature of legal heirs can be specifically mentioned in the application to remove any confusion. Naturally, apart from the name of the mother, the name of the father, sister etc., who are legal heirs is to be mentioned in the application.

Once such an application has been made, the Authority, after verification would issue the legal heir certificate mentioning all the names as mentioned in the application.

Therefore, the stand of Mr. Narasimha is to be understand from this point of view.

Having obtained the legal heir certificate containing all the names of the Class-I and Class-II legal heirs, the mother as a Class-I heir can apply for and get mutation of the property in her name.

The next question to be addressed is whether in the absence of any legal heir certificate, the property can be sold by anybody i.e. the father of the deceased. There are multifarious answers to this question with attendant consequences. Before answering this, one has to remember, it is the comfort and confidence level of the buyer whether he is ready to buy the property without legal heir certificate would have to be considered.

Assuming that he is ready to buy without legal heir certificate in place, let us consider whether the Father can sell the property (sign the documents of conveyance)?

1. The father can do so, provided he has a registered power of attorney granted by his wife (mother of the deceased) in his favour to execute the deed.

2. In that event, he will be selling the property for and on behalf of his wife and is liable to account for the sale proceeds to his wife.

3. There is no need for any other legal heir including the husband to put any signature on the sale deed either on their own or as a confirming party.

4. If the buyer is ready and willing, the mother of the deceased can execute the sale deed herself, without first getting the property mutated in her name.

However, it must be borne in mind that in such situations, the buyer is buying trouble for himself, which he can easily avoid by insisting on mutation.

prabhakar singh (Expert) 02 December 2013
If Mr.Anirudh whom i consider 2nd authority after expert Mr.Ramachandran of this site on matters relating to personal succession laws and excise laws,permits me to submit then i would say as below:
1.If the property left by deceased son is agricultural(and not in U.P.) ,the mother being only heir can directly apply to Tehsildar/sdm of jurisdiction for mutation of her name in place of his deceased son without applying for any legal heir certificate.

2.If the property is of abadi nature (residential)and recorded in name of deceased son in records of a municipality,the mother can directly apply for mutation without applying for any legal heir certificate from tehsil.

3.In case the property was recorded with some other development authority who has framed some rule that before mutation one has to produce legal heir certificate from tehsildar/sdm only then it would be necessary and not otherwise.

4.Such legal heir certificates are executive papers and not documents of title.

Guest (Expert) 02 December 2013
Dear Mr.Abdul JI If the sale deed is to be executed by all the three Father, Mother and Sister Basing ON the LHC after proper public notice as I had explained earlier who else could create any issues

prabhakar singh (Expert) 02 December 2013
Situation may come where true owner is interested in selling but these kind so called LHC without right are not ready to sign then what shall happen,illiquid assets
(immovables)shall freeze for want of exchange.

Guest (Expert) 02 December 2013
Dear Mr.Abdul JI once again let me repeat you Legal Heir Certificate is a valid document and whether GOVT is under fault of providing it.Though it would be treated as Self Acquired Property bought by the deceased it was from the funds he had taken from his father as you have mentioned.If he ia also a party in selling he should be happy.What I had advised you is a very simple and viable and legal procedure.IF THE LHC IS NOT A VALID DOCUMENT WHY THE GOVT SHOULD TITLE IT AS ;LEGAL;

Anirudh (Expert) 02 December 2013
Dear Mr. Narasimha,

I am afraid that when you say that all the three Father, Mother and Sister can execute the sale deed, you have not really examined the issue from legal stand point.

Can you, for my benefit, indicate whether a person who is not the owner of the property can execute a sale deed? In the present query, except the mother of the deceased, the others like father, sister etc., have no right, title or interest in the property. As such, how can they execute the sale deed and in what capacity? What will they say in the recital?

Guest (Expert) 02 December 2013
Dear MR.Abdulji Apart from their mother if the father and sister also co-signs in addition the buyer could confirm himself 100%no body else is left for raising any claims on any grounds.My views are totally from the point of view of the buyer For Recital they could mention Mother along with other Legal Heirs.

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 03 December 2013
THANKS NARASIMHA JI, I UNDERSTAND ALL THE MATTER.

PRABHAKAR SINGH SIR, said property is residential but purchaser has not recorded his name in the municipal corporation due to his death, the purchaser just died after one month of purchase the said property.

As i understand in this discussion mother became the owner of said property after the death of his son according to Hindu law.

Respected experts, in this query also one thing is appear before me " confirming party" as per my knowledge The basic idea of joining the Confirming Party is to ensure that certain issues do not arise at a later date. It is only in cases where there is no interest, but a doubt may arise as to whether a person can have interest, then such a person is made as a Confirming Party.

Thanks in advance.

prabhakar singh (Expert) 03 December 2013
Then first let mother be recorded as owner in municipality concerned.
And let father and sister file no objection affidavit to mother's application.
The vendor would be mother and father and sister would be confirming party to further insure the things.

Although future is never predictable and for dishonesty course of law is unfortunately always open and a suit of cancellation of any deed may come on several grounds.

Guest (Expert) 03 December 2013
Respected Mr.Prabhakar Singh Ji If I had made you feel bad in any manner I sincierely apologise

Guest (Expert) 03 December 2013
Dear Mr.Biswanath Roy Ji Thank You Sir

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 03 December 2013
Many Many Thanks TO ALL EXPERTS for good and proper advice.

Guest (Expert) 03 December 2013
Khuda Hafiz Shukriya

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 03 December 2013
AAP KA BHI BAHUT ABAHUT SHUKRIYA. Almighty save You, me and ALL.

Biswanath Roy (Expert) 03 December 2013
Dear Mr. Razique,
You might have confused or in any dilemma that in my earlier opinion I claimed that father of the deceased son can sell the property by taking signature of the mother as confirming party. I did so because at the time of purchasing the property valuable consideration was paid by the father and that definitely paid from his bank account. Therefore , considering all aspects of the material facts and provisions of Transfer of Property Act and Sale of Goods Act I opined so.

ABDUL RAZIQUE (Querist) 03 December 2013
Biswanath Sir,
But the transaction made by the purchaser partly cash and partly from self account. The cash transaction fact known to family member and there is no strong evidence.
Sir I have no any complain regarding your valuable opinion.
Thanking you sir.

R.V.RAO (Expert) 02 April 2014
as sri prabhakar ji said,mother is legal owner, who can sell and father and sister of deceased can join as confirming parties.

but let first the mother name figure as owner in govt.records, and father and sister file supporting affidavit for that.

Who became owner of property

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