Too many watchmen appointed by society...
Himanshu
(Querist) 29 January 2012
This query is : Resolved
Ours is a very small society consisting of only 10 members.Out of which 3 members have leased out their flats.
Now there is a syndicate formed by managing committee and the members who have leased out their flats.
The issue is our building plot is very small and per floor there is only one flat.
so in total there are 11 floors out of which 4 floors are owned by secretary & her family.There is a heavy and unnecessary spending over security guards.They have appointed 5 security guards 3 for day and 2 for night.Out of which during the day time 1 is always missing and in the night one sleeps in the garage.So practically only 3 are working coz they also know that they are overemployed. Now it is costing 2000/- per flat per month just for security what shall we do ? shall we write to the registrar ? but we are in minority..coz of syndicate across.
Other neighboring bldgs have employed only 2 watchmen in total in comparison to 5 for the buildings twice or thrice our size.
please help..
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 29 January 2012
You offer to replace and release the watchman, when he goes for PISS, and TOILET or smoking. or f he fall sick suddenly, or remain absent, That will save Society money, and you will be busy overnight . You will have no time to ask useless common sense Query to LCI Experts.
Bless God, your security expenses is shared, . Suppose you had your own bungalow, you had to pay only yourself for all 5 watchman, or face insecure!! What u prefer??
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
Mr.Shroff,
What you have said is very thoughtful of you but irrelevant here coz i have already explained in my Qn about my society size and please answer the question practically..I am from mumbai & not many people live in bungalows here..
Most of the big societies in mumbai only appoint 3 to 4 watchmen at the most & ours is a petty society..where members are also few who dont need so many watchmen..
Reading the question properly before answering would be helpful..
What kind of answer is this..? Even Amitabh Bachchan also doesnt have 5 watchmen in his bungalow..
We have taken contract with security agency
so in case of one falling sick automatically gets replaced with a new one..Sir please answer to give the solution...
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 30 January 2012
My Dear Himanshu,
When you are residing in a building with very few members, and if they decide so, and you are not covered by Co-operative Society' Act, where is the remedy, except self help??
You wrote "Reading the question properly before answering would be helpful."
Do you think a person at my stage do not read properly??
Security Agency can replace a man, but not for small duration. As I mentioned for Lunch, Toilet etc, and if someone want total security, and he arranged for it, as his requirement for TOTAL 24/7 SECURITY"
WHAT IS THE REMEDY??
You are not the only, who pay for these watchman??
I understand, you may not need, but someone may need it, depends upon his business, personal enmity. Cash or Diamonds kept in house;
As such you did not disclose your address, business, and activity of other residence that need Tight Security.
The requirement changes with Locality, Wealth of person, Threats received from BHAI,
You may be a clean person, do not anticipate attack, Someone may be having fear in Mind.
You arrange Meeting, find out who want higher Security, burden him for extra payment.
It is your Indoor management. You amongst your 10 have to settle the dispute. There is no Law, you should keep a watchman or keep 1 or 100.
It is a personal choice.
You used Word "Ours is a very small society consisting of only 10 members" Is it a Registered Co-Op Society?? If so you can refer the matter to Asst Registrar, but I think it may not be so, nor they will interfere in your indoor management.
You, I understand you are wealthy, intelligent enough, and well to do person, so I said "It is a common sense."
Do you think, any Law Point is involved here to be refereed to Legal Experts??
Didn't you realize no one even replied you, till now, except me?? May be in a bit humorous manner, but it was hinting you, and a correct reply. I know, nobody replace watchman. I mean to say, someone want this, that's why he hired 5 watchmen.
Yes, you do not know the purpose behind, but who appointed 5 watchmen cannot be fool, when he must be very competent, and very intelligent guy.
He must have thought far ahead. He anticipates Risk, and need higher security. Top Heroes, and business man are guarded which you cannot see. It’s not only watchmen, other Agencies have their own systems, and well trained invisible persons secure them.
Go and talk to them.
They may not be able to disclose their secret but will certainly agree to decrease your burden to pay for extra watchman.
Lines are not important, for person of your level, reading a hidden message in between the line is important, that what I wrote.
I thought you will understand the meaning therein. And don't take words as it is.
OK. You are welcome
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 30 January 2012
Nothing seems to be added in the wise reply of shroff.
ajay sethi
(Expert) 30 January 2012
you cna raise the issuein AGM .
request secretary to place the issue for considertaion before AGM .
although secretaruy may be owning 4 flats he must be having only one vote . request members not staying in society to attend meeting .
5 security guards for small society is waste of money . how many gates are there in society complex .
place resolution for vote . if majority of members feel that society dosent need 5 security gards you cna remove them after resolution is passed
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 30 January 2012
Sethi Saab,
Out of 10 flats, 4 of Secretary. ,
I am sure, it s neither a Co-op Society, nor any AGM is legal or binding!!
It is an Indoor Management.
Who stop you keeping 5 cooks in your house, or cook potato only, & not cabbage?? Law cannot help it.
No Law is applicable in this particular case. There cannot be AGM, or I would have suggested him, before replying a single sentence. Can there be Co-Op Hsg Soc with 5 members??
So I answered him in details. Now revise your answer.
Even if a Watchman is removed, he saves 1k pm, as shared by 10 flat owners.
The income of Himanshu, I guess is over 2L pm. so this amount is negligible.
For which, he may go against majority, otherwise he would have not ask this Query here.
A person of his level can easily ask this Problem to his Advocate, but preferred FREE advice.
I am sure, if he talks with other members, they will spare him for extra cost of watchman. A particular resident [most probably a tenant Mr. X] needed extra Security in that building for the reasons best known to him only. That Mr. X will surely bear that extra cost.
If Himanshu stop paying for Watchman, others cannot take any action against him.
I hope it is clear.
Let Himanshu say something, as he must be knowing the root cause of all these. He did not disclose need for high security for small building in Mumbai. Probably it is tenanted building.
Now kindly revise your answer
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
Thank you Sir Shroff & Sir Sethi,
I appreciate your reply sir Shroff..
I have already thought of all the points you have mentioned before only..
management is lousy secretary has 4 flats in diff family members' names..
They dont manage properly because most of the time watchmen remain absent,have been sleeping in the meter room with door locked..
I had read somewhere that society cant overspend on security..if that is the case then whom to approach..?
Me and other 2 members are against it but rest are 3(leased out) and 4(secretary&family,treasurer and chairman...
They are just suppressing us in all the matters coz they have formed a syndicate...
There are many other issues like unauthorised construction in the staircase lobby almost blocking the staircase & keeping the fridge and forming the kitchen in the lobby..chopping the meat over there..& this is being done by a treasurer..When i m telling you there is a syndicate there are many reasons behind that I cant write all over here..coz of space limitation..They have not obtained the waterbills from BMC since last 3 years and charging us 1000/- pm for bmc water charges...They are not making any efforts to get the things right...coz they are busy...& they wont give up there secretary position also...coz they want to dominate..
Now I hope you understand the matter in my society...It's a mess for us...bliss for them...What can be done..? Can registrar be approached for this..?
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 30 January 2012
Dear Himanshu, You did not reply my basic Question
Is your Society Registered?
If Ans is YES, everything is possible. If No, no remedy.
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
Sir Shroff,
Regardless of my income I dont have any extra money to throw away for waste..Xtra security guards than what required is just a waste..You could've guessed for other members this thing that they must be earning more than they need..that's the reason they can afford to waste money like this...They are all filthy rich people...
& I dont belong to that category..me and other members who are with me are old members from the redeveloped bldg...The new lot is in majority and are filthy rich so they are dominating and trying to overburden us so that we leave the society and stay somewhere else...
& if the security was doing it's job than it was alright to certain extent but they are xtra than what required so they are lazy and kaamchor by all means...1 security guard remained absent for 15 days last month..and nobody to take notice of it coz the management is lousy...& there cant be other mgmnt coz they are always in majority..coz of very less members in the bldg.
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
yes it is registered..
ajay sethi
(Expert) 30 January 2012
mr shroff .
if out of 10 flats 4 are of secretary but in name of differnt family members society can be formed .
querist has mentioned it is a registered cooperative housing society.
if society has not paid water bills they must not have executed indemnity bond too .
complain to the registrar for mis management . mention the violations . ask for appointment of adminstrator
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 30 January 2012
Yes Ajay,
Now he informed soc is registered,
so can take action, for Adm Appointment and ask for inquiry.
He is alloted old members from the redeveloped bldg...The new lot is in majority and are filthy rich so they are dominating . This type of dispute start due to wide diff of eco standard, they have t pay 8k pm mtn + tax. So it pinch them, Idea to throw them out, and captured their flats. so others won't help. Administrator will be managed by them, and it will further increase the cost.
he have to do something tactfully.
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
maintenance 8k plus prop tax 8k so total
we r paying 16k pm outgoing...now can you undrstand sir why i m crying here...
Thanks
ajay sethi
(Expert) 30 January 2012
exhorbitant . where is the property?
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
It's in khar, Mumbai...
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
Other societies dont have so much outgoing..
It is just due to mismngmnt...
Maintenance should come to at the most 6000/- if handled properly...right now it is 8250/-...
ajay sethi
(Expert) 30 January 2012
act as advised to you .if possible let 1/3rd members lodge complaint with registrar. go trhough audited accounts furished to you , minutes of AGM etc
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 30 January 2012
The root cause is malafide and intentional :
It is a 10 story building in Khar Mumbai, and each floor for one member.
There the cost of his residence may be 7 cr and up.
It is non uncommon here having 25k mtn p,m.
1% of flat cost 1L pm.
It have swimming pool Total in & out security with cc tv, hidden camera, watch towers, etc.
This being redeveloped building, and Himanshu must have not paid for new flat, as old tenant, new purchasers had paid in multi-crore per flat, and that too for 4 flats in same building.
They are no fools.
It s like fighting with crocodile in water.
It is dangerous too.
Polite request may work, as filthy rich even say, ok dont pay these charges. They are liberal with those, who bow down, or show their genuine difficulties. So I advised accordingly.
They have money power to manage Registrar and influence to do a lot of things. Let us be practical
Law don't work everywhere.
Himanshu, r u Gujju?
They are very mild non violent persons, and those filthy rich can be ***.
All these counts.
So try solving with smooth mild way.
I do not recommend harsh action.
u r alone on your floor.
R.RAJENDRAN
(Expert) 30 January 2012
Since you are also sharing the financial burden of the so called small society in the matter of security, you have got every right to raise the issue of too many watch men for a small society.
It is a different matter, if too many watch men are appointed in the individual capacity of a flat owner.
I hope your society may have some bye-laws approved by all the members of the society. According to the bye-laws, what is the definition given for the term 'common expenses'?
In accordance with the provision in the bye-laws you can proceed to take legal action.
In case that you feel that amendment is required in the bye-laws to avoid this wasteful expenditure, you can raise that issue also in the society legally.
You seem to be tenacious and firm in your point. That is what is required to espouse your cause.
M V Gupta
(Expert) 30 January 2012
you and other minority memebrs may give a collective representation to the Secretary to remove the excess guards and bring down the expenses failing which you will be constarined to stop payment of guards salaries. Also file a compalint with the Registrar and request him to conduct uinspectionof the affiars of the Society.
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
Thank you so much Sir Rajendran & Sir Gupta.. I'll definitely do so Gupta sir..
Your suggestion has been of great help & relief...Mr.Shroff you have also taken lots of trouble to help me..
I salute you all...& will get back to you when I'll take the required action as suggested by you all to get rid of the problems....
Lots of love & respect
Himanshu..
Himanshu
(Querist) 30 January 2012
Sethi sir I salute you too for your kind help...
I appreciate & am grateful to you all for your selfless help....
