Photocopy as primary evidence.
Vick
(Querist) 20 August 2013
This query is : Resolved
if a complainant / person produces a photocopy of certain document in the courts , is it considered Primary evidence or a legitimate / legal document in the eyes of the Law .
the accused has denied that any such doucments as submitted /produced by the complainant was ever given by him to the complainant.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 20 August 2013
A photocopy document would be treated to be
secondary evidence and is not admissible in evidence unless loss, misplacement,or non custody of original with party producing the photocopy is proved to the satisfaction of the court by evidence adduced in this regard.
Vick
(Querist) 20 August 2013
ok ,
Prabhakar ji thanks again.
now lets go little deep into it.
the said fotocpy is produced by the complainant claiming that it was given to her by the accused husband.
the fotocopy in question is a divorcee decree made by the complainant herself and produced in the court claiming those fotocopies were given to her by the accused husband at the time of marriage.
ajay sethi
(Expert) 20 August 2013
she should issue notice to husband to produce the original divorce decree .
Guest
(Expert) 20 August 2013
Photocopy is prone to manipulation and cannot be treated as primary evidence. Moreover, a photocopy of any document should be subject to verification with reference to the original document for being considered as a true copy, even as a secondary evidence.
Vick
(Querist) 20 August 2013
She has'nt done so or served any notice of any kind to husband, But Despite knwing the accused husband actual address, Instead served notices to a wrong address and get a favorable Ex-parte decree from the accused husband.
But accused husband turned on in to the court on the day of judgement when the Ex-parte was to be adjudicated.
Vick
(Querist) 20 August 2013
If the photocopy produced by the complainant alleging that it was given to her by the accused husband ,
and,
Accused husband vehmently denying of having any knowledge of any decree and let alone giving any dusch decree.
the said foto copy is a divocre decree issued by Gaziabad courts which forged and fraudulently made by the complainant wife and were presented before the court.
the question is the Onus is on whome ?
the complainant wife or the accused husband.
Guest
(Expert) 20 August 2013
Mr. Vick,
Do you think that without any background any of the members would be able to presume what actually is the case, who is the complainant, who is the defendent, what for you are asking query and solution for what?
Your question was quite simple and limited to primary evidence, which has already been resolved.
If you go on stretching the thread with your suplementary queries, which I expect to be unending in the absence of any background, you are not going to land anywhere to find out an appropriate solution to your real problem, except getting yourself confused.
You have not stated anywhere what your own advocate is doing, what is his opinion about your queries, why you felt the need to post a question here, if you have hired an advocate, if not hired in a criminal case, what is your compulson not to hire an advocate for your case, when as per your profile you are a director of some organisation and can very well afford the fee of a lawyer?
Vick
(Querist) 20 August 2013
Dhingra ji ,
thanks for the advise.
i am not trying to do any harm to anyone by asking questions that comes to my mind and for which i need to take a legal opinion from experts from time to time.
if you can ive your expert comment , it will be appreciable.
the question is person 1 approached court with a photocopy sayiing the photocopy is given by person 2.
and person 2 denies of knowing any such and giving any such photocopy to person 1.
the onus to prove the authenticity of the photocopy is on the person 1 or 2.?
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 20 August 2013
Academic query. state facts or contact local lawyer.
Guest
(Expert) 20 August 2013
Mr. Vick,
Your statement, "i am not trying to do any harm to anyone by asking questions that comes to my mind," may not be wrong in your views, but factually you are just doing harm to the interest of several others, including the responders.
In fact, your first query was also of academic nature to which nobody likes to respond, as many supplementary queries do crop up out of replies when the problem is not actually solved due to non-discussion in right perspective. You should rather be thankful to those, who responded to your academic query. However, due to undue wastage of time, the experts are not able to devote themselves to solve others' problems. On the other hand, whosoever be the querist, he tries to take advantage at the cost of the precious time of the experts without caring for others convenience, but without getting his problem, as he asks questions as per his own perception, not on what he needs to give attention.
Now your supplementaty query is also of academic nature. I know there would not be an end you your supplementary queries until you post your real problem, as you pose questions as per your own understanding, not on the real issues that would actually need to be satisfied.
Moreover, for the sake of justifying your stand, you have very conveniently ignored to reply my question as possed on you specifically when I asked, "you have not stated anywhere what your own advocate is doing, what is his opinion about your queries, why you felt the need to post a question here, if you have hired an advocate, if not hired in a criminal case, what is your compulson not to hire an advocate for your case, when as per your profile you are a director of some organisation and can very well afford the fee of a lawyer?"
Please don't mind about my frank opinion, your reply, in itself, proves that you care only only your convenience, not of the others, including wastage of time of experts on your queries.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 20 August 2013
Mr.Vick!
It appears to be urgent to remind you that we are not here for gossiping with any querist.No querist can become lawyer simply by studying few sections or ruling touching problems he is facing in life.
Those who misguide or pose or boast knowledge or live in legal fantasies as querist are taken to be a problem on the site by me.
When photo copy was a copy of a certified copy of decree of court instead of asking me to go deeper into sea you are swimming, your one word more in the query could have finished my job in one sentence.
I do not know who idiots are representing either side in court?
As an original decree is property of court record,the rule is to issue a certified copy thereof which is admissible and any body can apply for and obtain a certified copy of a court's decree then no matter who gave the photocopy of the certified copy,the party furnishing Photocopy shall have to produce, as of legal necessity, a certified copy of that decree.
This is doubtless legal scenario.
Vick
(Querist) 20 August 2013
Prabhakar ji ,
as always you have been very clear in your guidance.
the woman forged a divorce decree and got it checked from the local court authorities which obviously certified that the divorcee decree is forged and not issued by the particular court.
(i try to explain again , the woman 1st charges a 498a on me and i go to jail , whilei am in jail she makes a forged divorcee decree claiming it to be given to her by me. , she then produces the said forged decree to the courts from where it was said to be issued from and the result of the quey was as desired by the woman , i.e., the courts certified that the divorcee decree is not issued by them. )
now the woman based on such certification from the court where the divorcee decree is said to have come from regarding the falsification of the decree approached courts in delhi that the divorcee decree is a forged one and that it is forged by me. which is absolutely false.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 20 August 2013
@HON'BLE EXPERTS!
WE DO NEED TO TAKE NOTICE OF THE KIND OF SITUATION ARISING IN VARIOUS QUERIES.
Deliberately a few of querists either withhold few crucial facts or mislead us about facts just to prolong the discussions.
Of late,there was a query everyone of us must be remembering about 'yamini' and 'Jamil' a deliberate suspense was created for no good reason and after entire discussion the revelation was made that both are 'Hindu'.
Mr. sethi then replied him correctly.
But i objected why he misleaded,then in turn he sharply reacted 'it is not necessary that name of someone should relate to his religion while the fact is that it would be very very and so very exceptional.
Then brain eater querists are requested not visit here.
ajay sethi
(Expert) 20 August 2013
prabhakar singji
in such a case when an expert asks some pertinent question to the querist we should wait for the querist to reply to the questions rather than replying to such a query
Vick
(Querist) 20 August 2013
Dear Experts ,
i tink i explainedthe correct& true pictures best to my knowledge.
inever gave any fotocopy of a divorcee decree to the cmplainant wife. she herself got it made from god knows where and then got it checked from the court whether it is genuine or not , obviously it wasnt genuine.
so she approached court stating that i forged a divorcee decree and cheated her.
this is not true at all.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 20 August 2013
YOUR QUERY BEGAN HERE:
"if a complainant / person produces a photocopy of certain document in the courts , is it considered Primary evidence or a legitimate / legal document in the eyes of the Law .
the accused has denied that any such documents as submitted /produced by the complainant was ever given by him to the complainant."
AND WHEN I REMINDED TO YOU YOUR QUERY SHAPES NOW:
"Prabhakar ji ,
as always you have been very clear in your guidance.
the woman forged a divorce decree and got it checked from the local court authorities which obviously certified that the divorcee decree is forged and not issued by the particular court.
(i try to explain again , the woman 1st charges a 498a on me and i go to jail , whilei am in jail she makes a forged divorcee decree claiming it to be given to her by me. , she then produces the said forged decree to the courts from where it was said to be issued from and the result of the quey was as desired by the woman , i.e., the courts certified that the divorcee decree is not issued by them. )
now the woman based on such certification from the court where the divorcee decree is said to have come from regarding the falsification of the decree approached courts in delhi that the divorcee decree is a forged one and that it is forged by me. which is absolutely false."
TO ME IT IS NOT THE WAY TO ASK A QUERY.
WHICH OF THE POST IS YOUR PROBLEM?
IF last then only last should have been raised,not the first.
Vick
(Querist) 20 August 2013
i am sorry prabhakar ji , but since the issue is soo complex and complicated , i was absolutely confused as to how must i represnt it.
the latest explanation as given by me , if makes any sense , can you guide , please.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 20 August 2013
THE ISSUE IS ZERO.COMPLEXION IS IN YOUR MIND.
Guest
(Expert) 20 August 2013
About his statement, "i think i explained the correct & true pictures best to my knowledge," I feel he has not explained the correct & true picture when the querist is keeping totally and deliberately silent on my quries, as raised on the role of his own lawyer, as follows:
"You have not stated anywhere what your own advocate is doing, what is his opinion about your queries, why you felt the need to post a question here, if you have hired an advocate, if not hired in a criminal case, what is your compulson not to hire an advocate for your case, when as per your profile you are a director of some organisation and can very well afford the fee of a lawyer?"
The question arises, when he is facing a criminal charge, he is keeping mum over the role of his own lawyer just to mislead us or keep us in dark of the factual position.
Vick
(Querist) 21 August 2013
Dear Mr.Dhingra
not all fingures are alike and so are the lawyers. what can i say about my lawyers who have never guided me untill now when i have read a small fraction of the Law.
I am here to seek the advise of you experts knowing in & out of law and practising for many many years.
As i said before , i have 2 set of cases on me ,1st : a 498A , 406 , 323 and 2ndly : 494 , 468 , 471 , 420 , 506 .
My lawyer is just concerened about the 498A & assuring me that i will not be re-arrested and i have to keep on coming to delhi from mumbai on each and every date and doesnt take interest in the 2nd case which seems to be in my favour as the complainant wife was charged for perjury for giving false afidavit to court & passed orders , an excerpt from the order
" 25. By this attempt on the part of the petitioner/wife, she is rendered as a litigant who has played fraud not only on the respondent but upon the Court by having mislead the Court into believing her affidavit, that she was not aware about any other address of the respondent which was absolutely to the contrary. Such like litigant would not deserve any relief from the Court of Law as she has not come to the Court with clean hands, and there could not be a worse example of an abuse of process of law and of a fraud being played upon the Court. The apology in a situation like this, does not hold much value."
before approaching my lawyer stoutly i wanted to fully prepare my self based on the expert & most useful guidance you give and also based on the little study i have done.
please understand. If you still think that i am trying to conceal things and keep mum on relevant issues , then i am sorry to have wasted you precious time , Sir.
Guest
(Expert) 21 August 2013
Mr. Vick,
We do have sympathy with the sufferers of 498a and almost everone readily tries to help the victims of 498a. But we also hate, if someone tries to keep us in dark about the real position of their case and take undue advantage of our free service by trying to waste our precious time.
We often find several people, who intend to abuse the process of law and play trick fraudulently on experts by keeping them in dark about the real facts and status of their cases. Examples of students, who do not take pains in their studies, or those persons of affluent class, who can well afford to pay a lawyer's fee, are in abundance, who try to take undue advantage of our expertise by keeping the members in dark. The question arises, when they intend to seek help of experts, why they try to conceal fact from them?
Not only that some persons by taking themselves as granted as the law experts try to interpret the things in their own fashion and seek advice on their on concept without narrating the real position of the case. Many of them, would naturally get misled due to their own wrong interpretations only.
Needless to mention, legal implications depend solely on the nature of the case and circumstances and environments under which such offences take place. So, personal interpretations of the affected person often go wrong on account of one or the other misunderstanding.
For example, in your own case, through your earlier query, which was merely of an academic nature, you sought opinion of experts on legality of "photocopy of certain document" but in your subsequent query you asked them about the onus to prove the authenticity of the photocopy on the person 1 or 2. That was also merely an academic query without your telling the status of person #1 and #2, as to who is prosecutor, who is defendent, what type of case is (criminal or civil), if criminal whether the case pertains to 498a or other than 498a. Needless to mention, onus shifts from prosecutor to the defendant in 498a case.
You gave part details only when such a waste of time on our part occured due to your keeping us in dark, when none of us was getting any benefit out of your case by sheer waste of our time. But, you still claimed, "I was not trying to do any harm to anyone by asking questions that comes to my mind"
If, as a director of your organisation you know the value of time, you can very well realize how much harm you could have tried to do to the experts by undue encroachment on their time by making you understand the need for details, and harm to the other beneficiaries also, who could have been benefitted by the advice of the experts in getting solved their problem during that wasted time.
Vick
(Querist) 21 August 2013
Dhingra ji ,
thanks for the detailed explanation. i swear i never had any intention to waste anyones precious time. but just that i was confused & hesitant to give complete details of my most complex case i converted my question into a simpler form and presented here before you experts.
i am neither from an affluent class but son of an army officer and came to mumbai 7 yrs back and running a small time export company and making my ends meet.
i am neither a law student and dont even know what benefit will the student get by putting academic questeies here,
the complainant woman has filed for a divorce in the court of ADJ , tis hazari courts , where she has presented the self forged divorce decree which she got herself checked from the Gaziabad courts that the decree is false (which had to be false as it was fabricated by the complainant).
based on this complainant filed a divorcee petition and got process served at a wrong address and the matter had been kept for Ex-parte. i somehow came to knwo about the case and made myself present before the court at the last hour when the ex-partee was to be pronounced.
ADJ gave us 30 dasy to file a written statement and in the statement we replied that the divorcee decree as provided by the complainant is never given by us.
thats the question , i never made or gave any divorcee decree to the complainant , but she herself forged and fabricated a decree issued from the gaziabad courts and got it checked from the gaziabad court.andstarted a case in tis hazari without even informing me.
i dont know if still i am able to convey my case.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 21 August 2013
THE ISSUE IS ZERO I TOLD YOU YESTERDAY AND I STILL MAINTAIN IT.
Merely that your wife(petitioner at Tis Hazari)alleges in her petition that you provided her a photocopy of a decree purported to have been issued by a Ghaziabad court,which she after verification from that court found incorrect does not lead to any inference that you have committed any forgery.
You must have denied her this allegation in your reply called written statement and this i infer from information furnished by you in your last post which reads' we replied that the divorcee decree as provided by the complainant is never given by us.'
Every thing discussed in past about admissibility of a photostat really has no relevance to this case.
The rule of evidence is that s/he who asserts a fact is under burden to prove that fact when other party has denied the same.Hence burden of proof is on your
wife petitioner to prove it was you who gave her the photostat in question.
Before whom? you gave her would be her witness.What was the occasion to give her and for what benefit you would give her or what benefit she shall get out of it if she herself has manipulated all these are the relevant circumstantial enquiries to develop her and her witness(if any brought)cross examinationassessing which the court shall arrive at a conclusion whether you gave her or she has manipulated on her own the photostat in question.
It is not clear from query what are the grounds of divorce taken in her petition.?
Vick
(Querist) 21 August 2013
Prabhakar ji ,
a very big thanks a lot.
the witness is a family doctor of the wife and no one else. because there was no witness at all. as i never gave her any divorce decree.
she claims that i gave her a forged divorce decree so i can marry her and get lots of dowry.
i got married in feb 2007 and case of 498a rgistered after 156(3) in feb 2008.
i was arrested in december 2008 and january 2009 released on bail and at that time she filed this case of forged divorce decree. in fact she approached courts with this falso decree and charged many criminal complainats agaist me so i could not come out on bail.
she had almost taken an ex-parte divorcee based on the forged divorce decree that she verified by herslf and presented in the courts of ADJ tis hazari. untill i appeared the last moment charging her of perjury sec 340 and court fined her of 10,000 rs for giving false affidavit and misleading the courts in trying to obtain a favorable ex-partee decree in her name without my knowledge.
in the wrtten statement we have stitly and vehemenmtly denied that the so called decree was ever given to her by us.
where do you practise ? whats your email id. pls.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 21 August 2013
i practice faraway in the interiors called Azamgarh.
psinghadv@gmail.com
Guest
(Expert) 22 August 2013
Mr. Vick,
In fact, instead of getting more confused, you better consult some local lawyer along with case related documents for examination and analysis of your real problem, as in spite of several cross-queries from experts, your own replies and supplementary queries, you are still far away from putting forward your real problem before us due to several misconnections of events, like 498a case in Delhi, divorce decree of Ghaziabad court, claiming of divorce again by wife based on the so called existing divorce decree by Ghaziabad court, divorce document claimed to have been given by you, certified copy of document by court of Ghaziabad but still that is a fake document, etc.
There is no relevance who gave the document, but relevance is about the validity of document.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 29 August 2013
Very well advised by experts so nothing remains to be added.
