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Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     12 January 2016

Women's untouchability

Women between the age 12 and 50 are barred from entering the temple at Sabarimala. The reason is that they may be menstruating and hence impure. The Supreme Court has asked a question whether it is not a violation of the woman's right. A woman during her monthly period is considered  impure and hence is isolated and asked to sit in a corner in most Hindu houses, especially among upper castes. Is it not a punishable offence under Section 498A and the DV Act?



Learning

 15 Replies

Rocky Smith (Instructor @ Calcutta (rockysmith4calcutta@gmail.com))     12 January 2016

Bigamy is legal in some religions as per their custom law. Why so? Why this is not punishable u/s 494 IPC?

 

Why nobody (Including Supreme Court) question on this?

 

Please know that definition of cruelty is very clear u/s 498A.

 

Such cruelty is not at all punishable under this section.

 

I am against any custom un- scientific, blind believe. I believe only on science. Nothing else.

 

I am not against women but against the feminist, Corrupted, biased legal system.

 

If seems to me that our legal system believes on “Divide & Rule” theory during British age.

 

Rocky Smith (Instructor @ Calcutta (rockysmith4calcutta@gmail.com))     13 January 2016

Agreeing with the view of Mr. TGK Reddi,

 

Why bigamy is legal for some religions and illegal for some religions? Is this not violating Article 15 on Indian Constitution ?  

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     13 January 2016

Bleeding by itself is not unhygienic. It is that part of the body through which excretions from the body come out. Excretions are things not wanted by the body. They have also foul smell and has to be rejected. Those unwanted things have to be rejected and those areas kept clean. That is hygiene, This applies to both male and female. Bleeding has to be controlled and whatever used for absorbing blood has to be periodically rejected. If the blood remains there until rejection it does not mean that the whole body is dirty. If a person is injured and bleeds and if the wound is dressed to absorb the blood can we say he is unhygienic or dirty? All of us came into this world through the same canal through which bleeding takes place. Thus all of us are dirty. God has created woman that way. If a woman does not bleed at the appropriate age, it becomes a matter of worry.  Then how can God say do not come to me. Hindu religion worships that part of the body in both male and female.

Please answer my question. Scientifically considering during periods a woman is not any more dirty than anyone else. Hence does ostracising her during .periods not amount to domestic violence. Courts have given varied intrepretations for the 'violence' in the Acts.

My question has nothing to do with either woman-hating or woman-loving.

1 Like

Dr Katta Venkata Rama Krishna (Retd Sr Director Govt of India/ Advocate)     13 January 2016

01) The advent of hi-tech revolution, globalization and liberalization of economy, the traditional women metamorphosed to a financially independent stable Drukers skilled worker on par with men is construed by male chauvinists as intolerable resistance against them. At the same time no doubt certain percent of the so called individualistic women liberty exploded against men, the women legal protection turned a lethal crazy weapon in the wrong unscrupulous hands.

 

02) Women sitting in corner during menstrual cycle aimed at health and hygiene traditionally is almost getting extinguished due to modern nucleus family system and advanced health care except for a few orthodoxers.  The shedding of the endometrium mechanism causing disorders PMS/ PMT, PCOS, amenorrhea, dysmenorrhea whether or not unhygiene if understood first medically, one can then only interpret properly.

 

03) On 11-01-2016, Monday, the Supreme Court questioned the age-old ban on entry of women of menstrual age group in Sabarimala temple, saying it was a public temple and everyone needed to have “the right to access”. At best, there can be religious restrictions and not a general restriction, the bench said.

 

04) Every tradition and custom or religion when analyzed had its own logical reasoning behind, which is superficially interpreted without taking its rationality of such custom leads to said erratic immature arguments.

 

05) At a time when Westerns are adopting Indian culture and even native German school children could chant Vedic mantras perfectly, it is quite paradoxical the Indian rich culture where born time immemorial is daunted.

 

06) The false attributes made by some respondents hereinabove to the legal system as "feminist, corrupted, biased legal system" and "Divide and Rule of British Age" and "Women-hater" are unwarranted, uncalled for and against Nations interests punishable criminal offences.

 

07) Internationally reputed Legal India is so democratic to strike the balance between judiciary and legislature in the interest of public within its frame. Such objectionable comments proved beyond doubt of perverse freedom of speech.

 

08) Reading in between the lines of law and interpreting with half-knowledge cannot answer the doubts on legal provisions, may be ones own individual cases of sporadic bitter experiences cannot be generalized.

 

09) The facts of Number of judgements decided against women, the great social reformers fought against women atrocities are males only not to be forgotten. One should work hard to develop skills, learn to become an outstanding expert before judging on the Legal system.

 

10) Without understanding the global scenario with open mind and exposure beyond their shell, commenting as such, drawing conclusions based on parochial view are quite pathetic need counselling.

 

11) By only staring at the theatrical fancied faces of a few women within own arena followed by some victimized husbands; thinking the entire women on earth are empowered; or totally ignoring or unaware of the real plight of remote rural women folk in India, ill-health and malnutrition in Africa, atrocities on women in Middle East; commenting as above construe living in fool’s paradise as observed by the last respondent.

 

12) While such challenges being addressed by United Nations, the critics above if divert their synergy towards social contribution would certainly keep themselves mentally healthy and succor to the mankind.

1 Like

Dr Katta Venkata Rama Krishna (Retd Sr Director Govt of India/ Advocate)     13 January 2016

repeated

prabhakar advocate (advocate)     13 January 2016

Section 498-A will be attracted only when cruelty of physical or mental, is perpetrated in relation to dowry demand, again the culprits should be husband and/or his relatives and that is not the case here. DV Act is not applicable because the violence shall be perpetrated by the persons shall be in domestic relationship with the victim.  But women or any persons on their behalf, annoyed with such illegal restrictions have got the relief through IPC and the provisions of COI.

Rocky Smith (Instructor @ Calcutta (rockysmith4calcutta@gmail.com))     13 January 2016

Originally posted by : DrKattaVenkataRamaKrishna

06) The false attributes made by some respondents hereinabove to the legal system as "feminist, corrupted, biased legal system" and "Divide and Rule of British Age" and "Women-hater" are unwarranted, uncalled for and against Nations interests punishable criminal offences.

 

07) Internationally reputed Legal India is so democratic to strike the balance between judiciary and legislature in the interest of public within its frame. Such objectionable comments proved beyond doubt of perverse freedom of speech.
 
 

 

 

Your above statements are contradictory since you are admiring “Freedom of Speech” as well as making afraid such Indians of demarcating India those are highlighting the shadow part (Feminism, Corruption) of Indian Legal System and giving training of self-defense (Which is their Constitutional Rights).

 

This is also against Indian Constitution and Rule of this forum (LCI Rules)

 

LCI Rules as follows : -

 

We are not here to quarrel with others. Personal attacks, sarcasm, abusive words, innuendoes and rude behaviour will not be taken lightly: The Lawyersclubindia Community is comprised of different types of people with diverse views. They have the right to feel at ease here, even though they may not always hold the same opinions as you do or believe in the same things. Be polite to everyone always.

 

Our basic concept of Jurisprudence that the 100 culprits may let go free but no innocent should be punished.

 

Also our Legal System is bound to provide equal protection to anyone irrespectively race, s*x, religion and place of birth.

 

Then why extra protection-law and pre-convicted notion of views have been intentionally incorporated in democratic, internationally famous Indian Judiciary System?  laugh

 

Lastly, I would like to reiterate what is said earlier. Please know my statements are not punishable on your mere imputation which is out of jurisprudence.   

balaram (director)     13 January 2016

Respected Ramani,

Apology if I am out of my freedom of speech.

Can you plesae tell why some one want to go temple and what make them to go there?

This will give answer to all your questions.. Even to supreme court..

Please think of issues which really creating problem to living creature.

Regards,

Venkat P

balaram (director)     13 January 2016

Dear Experts,

As per the messages which I have read from all experts, I would like to give a message which I analyzed. A single sided (Biased) support either by Law or by politicians will again create a problem.

The best example we can take all our advanced countries (US, UK, EU) where there is a drastic increase of g*y system is due to unreasonable freedom and feminism in the society.

I still remember Respected Dr. Abdhul kalam sir always mention our family system is backbone of our future and our financial support. We have to respect woman and fight for equality it doesn't mean that grab the freedom of men or inturpt the responsibilities of men.

India still dosen't have social and financial awareness. Still lot of old age people (our mom's and dad's) has spent their whole life to bring their children up and still Hon'ble court courts beleive men has to support her family and parents. If a girl who marry a boy doesn't want his parents how the old age people survive. I belive you all saw clipping of lady who attempted to mu**er he in-law in Bihar.

In my opinion there are many thins which will not answered by any court in the world, so I beleive to not to touch until they harm living life.

Finally I can give uncountable of examples where the judgments have spoiled the lives of men. It doesn’t mean that men always correct, but the corrupted system (Esp police) never bring a good society.

Regards,

venkat P

Venkat P

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     16 January 2016

 

My query was simple. The first sentence was just a reproduction of a news item, with no comments of my own. The second was a query with an implied opinion of my own that a woman should not ostracized during her periods. (I have reiterated this opinion later too).

However there has been a torrent of lengthy responses much of it are debates among those who responded. I am overwhelmed. But, more I am confused.  So many things have been stated which have no relation to my question.

IPC – 498A will apply to the daughter-in-law of the house as she can be asked to sit in order. It could happen at the same time that the daughter is given more freedom. Courts stretch the meaning of the words like cruelty to any extent. The connection between cruelty and dowry is only in the explanation and dowry need not be there as a reason for the application of the Section.

Now let us examine whether the laws of the land can restrict, modify or ban religious practices.

  1. Not allowing dalits and even OBC’s entry into temples was a religious practice. Now there are laws against such religious practices.

  2. According to Manu Smriti a girl should be married away well before she reaches the age of puberty. Even during the British rule “The Child Marriage Restraint Act” also called the Sardha Act was brought into force. Sardha was very much a high caste Hindu. After independence the age has been further raised to 18. Where is religion?

  3. Ban on Sati, a Hindu religious practice, is well known.

  4. Hindu Marriage and Divorce Act and the Hindu Succession Act, enacted in 1955 or so, were also against Hindu scripttures. In Hindu scripttures marriages were until ‘death do us part’. There was no divorce. Hindu daughters had, before 1955, no right in father’s property.

  5. Our Constitution itself is over and above the Hindu scripttures.

     

    "We cannot have laws against religious practices". This applies to only Muslims in India, not even to Christians. Politicians, who rule this country, may belong to any Party. But this is a Hindu Rashtra for all of them in their heart of hearts.

    Article 48 bans cow slaughter as well as bull slaughter. The reason given is development of agriculture along scientific lines. If you develop along scientific lines and start using tractors, what will you do with the bulls?  If you do not need them, the best thing to do is to drive all of them into the tiger reserves. It will serve wild-life protection.

    Germans chant the Vedas. So long as you chant the Vedas in Sanskrit without knowing the meaning it is OK.  But what does the Purushasooktham say?  Brahmins are the face of the Purusha, Kshatriyas are His hands, Vaishyas are His hip and finally Shudras are His feet. Shall we give this in the preamble to the Constitution?

    An interesting thing recently happened in our neighborhood. A family, Brahmins, had two sons. The elder son had an arranged marriage. He got a top job and left to live separately in a bigger house of his own. The younger unmarried son remained at home with his parents. Then suddenly he disappeared. We were told that he married a Christian girl and hence was asked to leave. Years passed. The younger son had a boy and a girl. There was reconciliation and the father asked the younger son and family to come and live with them. He performed the holy thread ceremony of the boy. In due course the father died. Later the mother also died. They performed the last rites according to Brahmin practice in both the cases. Generally there will be a feast in the end when all relatives and friends will be invited. I was also invited. When the guests were leaving at the end of feast, the girl of the family gave each one of us a copy of the Gita. When she gave me a copy I told the girl ‘you have defied the Gita’. I opened the book and showed her the following

    सङ्करो नरकायैव कुलघ्नानाम् कुलस्यच, पतन्ति पितरोत्येषाम्  लुप्त पिण्ढोदक क्रियाः

    Those who intermarry do not perform the last rites for their ancestors. As a result they (the ancestors) fall into hell.

    Any comments?

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     16 January 2016

There are two things

1. All above the age of 18 are independent.  They are on their own. No one, not even their parents can say 'no' whatever they do.

2. Women and equal to men. They are independent to do whatever men do or even more.

Can anyone stop these two.

Long long ago I went to Canada. That was my first trip abroad. What I saw was shocking to me then. My conclusion then, which I believe even today, was that the status of women in society decides the direction in which the culture moves. There is now way of stopping it. Islam is trying to stop it in a bl**dy manner.

Roshni B.. (For justice and dignity)     16 January 2016

everything ain't law.there's something called spiritual discipline.in some castes,men have to shave off their  heads on parent's death.now why don't good hairstyled men cry that they're being illtreated?

 

if gals have to maintain a lil bit displine during those days,what's the big deal?hinduism is a scientific religion.there must be logic behind this ancient practice.let's not cry hoarse over each and every issue in this world.otherwise serious issues get ignored.

there are bigger discrimination issues like dowry,domestic violence,illtreatment towards divorcees,widows,pampering to the mistresses by women only thru their sansthas,portrayal as s*x objects in films,etc.if gals really want to shout about something,let them shout on these issues instead of non-issues.

1 Like

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     17 January 2016

The law enforcing community (police, magistrates, lawyers, courts, judges etc.) has no religion. A Muslim family with an internal family dispute pertaining exclusively to Islamic laws may engage a Hindu lawyer to represent them. There are instances. Vice versa has also happened. What is necessary is only knowledge of the relevant laws and the family's confidence in the lawyer. In the Sabarimala case the Muslim lawyer may be representing a Hindu client. One should look at things objectively without looking at the person who says. If a Muslim has filed the PIL the court and the system in the country has rightly allowed it.

Let Hindus not ape Muslims (Taliban, ISIS, many milder  versions and their silent sympathisers and supporters included). It is a shame that killers of Dabholker, Pansare and Kalburgi are moving about free waiting for their next target.

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     17 January 2016

I feel ashamed as a Hindu for the first time to know that there are counterparts of Taliban and ISIS among Hindus also. The cowards are making anonymous calls to Mr. Khan. Those who make the calls have the same mindset, if they are not the same people, as those who murdered Dabholkar, Pansare and Kalburgi. Superstitions are things of national pride and of proud national heritage for the Sangh Parivar. Because I use the word Sangh Parivar do not think that I am with the so called secularists.  Shah Rukh Khan and Ameer Khan have to be condemned. But sadly the behaviour of the Hindu Taliban appear to justify them.I was a member of the RSS and has undergone training in Nagpur during my younger days when I was thinking what some 'great people' say were gospel truth. They just brainwash young minds. Only difference between them and the Taliban is/was that they are/were  vegetarians.The parivar,  even Jan Sangh (the previous avatar of BJP) had not come into existence then.

Women do not enter temples on their own during their periods. Why not leave it to their conscience and self-discipline?  There are no such restrictions in any other temple in India. The pure men and women who go to Sabarimala make it dirtier than any menstruating woman can make. One can see human excreta floating in the holy Pamba River and pilgrims will be bathing in the same river. The river in hell has the name Vaitharani. Pamba river is Vaitharani on earth. Swamiye Saranam!


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