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Shantanu Wavhal (Worker)     19 April 2014

Indian women: why is it difficult to date an indian girl


I was arrested for talking to an Indian woman.

First of all, FIR is a police report in India, and it stands for First Information Report.

So I just got home after a GRUELLING day.

I have some knee problems these days. I went to see a specialist. He saw my X-ray report and recommended a few exercises, along with meds and told me to come back in two weeks.

My mother was there with me, and she suffers from arthritis. She was getting her diagnosis, while I was already free.

I saw this doctor, she looked nice. I didn't approach her, for her colleagues and patients were all around her. We had a good eye contact a couple of times. My Mom told me that it'd take her a few more minutes, and I encouraged her to take her time.

In about 15 minutes, this doctor, this woman... she got out of her room and walked towards the stairs. I followed her, and basically asked her to stop. 

Me: Stop
She: Yes?
Me: We should get together this weekend.
Her: Why?
Me: We'll have fun. Maybe get a cup of coffee or something!
Her: Get lost...

I walked away and sat down on the sofa, waiting for my Mom to come back.

In a few minutes, the chief of security asked me to step into his office. I went there. The woman had apparently complained that I had harassed her. Her boss, the senior doctor (SD) was also there. 

SD: What did you say to her?
Me: To who?
SD: To her... (pointing to her)
Me: What's it to you?
SD: I'll tell what it is to me you punk. I'll call the cops.
Me: I merely asked her out, she said no, and I walked away.
SD: (To his security staff) Don't let him go.

So I went back and sat on my chair. In a couple minutes, my Mom stepped into the room, and signaled that she was ready to leave. We left, but since my knees were hurting, I didn't walk fast. In less than 30 seconds, almost 30 security people surrounded me, four or five jumped me, and forcefully dragged me back in.

At this point, my Mom went berserk. She started crying and begging and pleading. She didn't know what the deal was. She started crying hysterically. With all that commotion, all eyes were on me. I could literally feel the heat of hatred from all those eyeballs, but I thought to myself, "No matter. I didn't do anything wrong."

In that dragging, my shirt got torn too.


I went back inside, and sought to speak to some senior doctor. I thought maybe the SD I had spoken to earlier might want to reason. But upon seeing me, he told me that he'd destroy me. His words, not mine.

My mother is crying and begging now, at this point. She tells me to apologize. I say, "Look I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. But if I stepped over any toes or crossed any lines, then I apologize. I didn't mean to disrespect anyone."

The police arrive. Some Policemen. They ask me what happened. Then they ask the girl what happened. I don't know what she told them. I told them exactly what had happened, and I was pretty sure that they'd side with me seeing as how nothing really had happened.

Lo and behold, the policemen sided with the doctors. What's more, some of her friends step in (as I was later told) and told the cops that I had been "eyeballing" other women too. 

Indian Government have started a woman's helpline, where any woman can seek help if she is being molested. This happened right after the brutal Delhi rape case a couple months ago. Apparently, she (or the SD) had called up that helpline and told them that I had harassed her, molested her, touched her and held her hand. I know I didn't even go for a hand shake.

They were now waiting for the "victim's" husband and father to arrive to file an FIR. My mother was going berserk seeking forgiveness. Honestly, I didn't know what to do. I tried to tell my Mom to leave, and to let me take care of it, but even she started blaming me for being an asshole. Whatever!

In unison, everyone agreed that asking her out was outraging her modesty, and that I had been completely unethical. Moral policing is one of the hobbies of Delhi police anyway, and seemingly that of every Indian who can speak.

Finally, the husband arrived. 

I had half expected him to respond with madness, and half with sanity. He chose total madness. He walked up to me and slapped me right on my ear without hearing a word. The police didn't do anything to stop him, and I had to reason with him with statements like, "Look, I didn't touch her" and "I didn't mean any disrespect" and "I didn't know she was married." He didn't calm down.

In the end, after all this hassle an FIR was filed, and I was immediately arrested. This happened around 11 AM. I was taken to a police station and put behind the bars.

As you can imagine, my mother was hysterical. She called up all my aunts and uncles and sought help from them. I don't know what happened next, but all I know is that someone bailed me out. They had to pay a good amount of money to a lawyer to arrange that for me. 

We didn't bribe... We got bail, and the money was spent on the lawyer's fee and bail amount.

I have a criminal mind according to my entire family. I saw the same hatred being reflected from the eyes of my uncles, and aunts, and Mom as I had observed in those doctors' and nurses'.

I got home after having being locked up in prison for 7 hours. I hadn't eaten anything since last night.

I have decided never to approach women anymore... at least as long as I am in India... Even if it means that I don't ever get laid again. Women have too much power in the system. I don't know how much money and time I will end up losing in this court case. Pretty sure they will confiscate my passport for as long as the trial lasts. And trials in this country last decades.

I am an outcast on so many levels.

I am numb and I don't know what I did to deserve this.

I don't even know what I am looking for here... Maybe it's a little bit of compassion, for no one around me seems to think that I am innocent, and that I didn't commit any crime. Even my best buddy said "Told you so!"

Yes, I am that severely depressed. I am numb.

Yours sadly,
A man who was victimized by a "Victim Indian woman" today, and is in tears

P.S. If you have some suggestions, I most readily welcome those.

P.P.S. This IS why it is too difficult to date Indian women. Forget dating, you can't even talk to them without getting arrested. Apparently, they don't hesitate to wield their new found power well.

P.P.P.S. Feel free to reproduce and share with anyone.

First things first. I left out one very important piece of information in my original post. I mentioned that the husband of that woman slapped me in full public view and with cops looking but never interfering. That’s true.
What is also true is that the father of this woman issued a death threat to me, again in full public view, and in front of all these cops. He said, “I will cut your head into two pieces. I will slice your throat. I am saying this in front of the police, and I am not afraid.”
Yeah… so asking a woman out is a crime, but hitting a man, or issuing a death threat, in full public view, in front of the cops, with CCTV monitoring all around is not!
Understandable. NOT.
What do the cops do? They specifically tell my Mom that, “We are here to destroy his life. We will stop at nothing until we destroy him.
I am anonymous. And I decided unless I was to fight them I was going to stay anonymous. But here’s a little bit of information about me…
I don’t follow the “unsaid” rules of the society. I am not politically correct, and if what I feel offends someone, so be it. That’s my general philosophy. I follow the law, I don’t breach it. I follow it without regard to my own desires and wishes, and that’s all the boundaries I contain myself in.
And I expect the law to protect my interests and rights.
This is India. India is supposed to be a country with one central constitution, and one government. What you or I or anyone else thinks is “wrong” or “unethical” or “stupid” has nothing to do with what I am allowed to do legally. 
The question, as many people don’t seem to have realized, is not what the most effective pick up line would be. Or what the smoothest approach would be. The question is that of legalities, and freedom of speech.
I am allowed to talk to any random woman, and ask her out- s*xually or in a platonic fashion- without harassing her. That I am allowed to do legally. Talking to someone and making an offer isn’t illegal, according to the Indian constitution. Not even an offer that’s s*xual in nature. My offer to the doctor – Have coffee with me – was as platonic as it gets. I have coffee with men, and with women, and I am a coffee connoisseur of sorts.
What I am not allowed to do is to molest or harass a woman (or anyone, really.)
Molestation is “the act of subjecting someone to unwanted or improper s*xual advances or activity (especially women or children).” As soon as that woman made it clear that my offer was unwanted, I went away. End of story. 

No molestation happened there. 
No harassment of any kind took place. 
No groping, no stalking, and no pressure was applied. 

I don’t do that. 

I respect myself far too much to chase an uninterested woman (or a uninterested business prospect or an uninterested employer) anyway. 
I don’t care if some people think what I did was wrong. Their thinking has nothing to do with the law, and my rights as a citizen of this country. At least theoretically.
Similarly, if someone felt offended, that does not mean I did something illegal. End of story, good bye, the end.
So this is to all those who think my approach was “doomed to fail” or “creepy at best” – Your opinion is NOT the law. And I did NOT breach the law.
The police are here to protect the law. And to protect those who do not breach it. They failed at their job. 
That’s what happened.
The cause of advancement of women and gender equality
I am all for helping women grow and express themselves as human beings. I am all for gender equality. But somewhere along the line, we (as a nation, or at least as a city) seem to have confused the abolishment of misogyny with promotion of misandry. 
Just because you are “Against” harassment of women does not mean you are automatically “For” punishing men, without giving them a fair chance for telling their side.
This is pure misandry. 
This is too much power for any gender. Think about it… 
Reverse the roles here. If a woman stopped a man and asked him to get a cup of coffee with her, and he filed a complaint for harassment… cops, friends, other men, and his own friends and family would make fun of him. He’d be thought insane. Just marinate over that for a minute. 
How many times have you heard about a woman being thrown into a prison for asking a man out?
No matter how creepy she is, generally if she leaves a man alone, nothing happens to her. I have personally been harassed and stalked by a woman in my past, and even back then; I was told that I was the culprit, and that I must have been the perpetrator.
Now, a lot of people seem to be laboring under the delusion that this is somehow my fault because my pick up line wasn’t the most effective one.
Let me tell you something… These are extreme double standards. This is similar to you saying that it was OK for a girl to have gotten gang-raped just because she was wearing a skirt. I even read the phrase “he was asking for it” somewhere. Try saying that about a woman who was wearing a mini skirt and got raped.
This is a cause for concern!
We are not empowering women by enslaving men to some random woman’s whimsical attention seeking agenda. We are weakening society as a whole.
If your society looks down upon honest and direct, straightforward communication, then so be it. I don’t care what people think of me. But if that society starts (illegally, and in direct contradiction with its own constitution) punishing me for exhibiting such behavior, then that society is bound to lose men like me. Either to its own agenda-driven Bureaucracy that punishes such behavior, or to another nation. In my case, it’s going to be latter.

I refuse to stalk a woman for days if not weeks, and then join the same gym as her to be “fraands” with her. I am NOT that weasel. I am not a stalker.

I am not ashamed of having my desires, and I don’t bother anyone if they’re not interested.
But the question here is one of freedom of speech. I didn’t molest, I didn’t stalk, and I didn’t even “jock” her as they do in Bollywood movies. I didn’t persist, and I didn’t even linger. 

It was still explained to me what I did was “wrong”. Cops here don’t realize that their “wrong” is not necessarily “illegal”. And neither do many people commenting here, or mobbing up in that hospital that day.
This is a cause for concern. 
Somewhere on the internet, there’s a woman who wrote, “I don’t believe his story because no one can act that cool and patiently under so much pressure.” My response to her: “Just because you have the emotional resilience of a teaspoon…
If I am treated this badly for being straightforward and honest, then it could be you, your brother, son, or any other man… 
I act, and I take the consequences. I face the music, and I only ever apologize if I realize I did something wrong. I try never to lose my head, and always strive to be exemplary in all my dealings.
But in any case, the fact of the matter is, that any man can be treated like this. And the consequences for approaching a woman could be “severe” in India.
Women have too much power when no one will even listen to a man. All a woman has to do is to pick up the phone and tell cops that you harassed her. And you’re already done for!!!
Even if you didn’t do ANYTHING. No one I have around me is trying to understand my point of view. 
I am guilty by default. 
People look at me as if I am some monster who raped a six year old. I overheard some female police officer saying, “If today he is doing this, tomorrow he will start holding hands. Then day after tomorrow he will start groping, and then after that, raping.” 
My (purely sarcastic) response to this: “If she is talking about men and working a job that is primarily male, then she lives half her life surrounded by strange men. Today she’s choosing to be surrounded by them, tomorrow she will flirt with them. Then day after, she’ll start sleeping with them and destroy many families.” This is not what I believe, just to be clear, and this remark is merely sarcastic. It was made to expose the fallacy in her argument against me. 
And I do have enough sense not to ACTUALLY utter statements like these in front of all those people who want to consume and destroy my life. I kept my mouth shut, as any rational man would.
In such environments, lives of men, or at least their reputations and their careers are being destroyed by the undue power bestowed upon women.
This is a HUGE cause.
One needs a mere glance at the amount of attention this answer has received in less than a couple of days to see how so many men realize it could have been them in my place.
It is a cause, and someone has to take up a fight.
Having said that, this is NOT my fight. As of now, they have dropped charges against me, and I will go on living my life as if nothing happened.
Because I am getting out of India in very near future, never to come back here ever again. This is gross injustice, but this is not my problem. This is a huge cause of concern for men who live in India, and I am not going to be one of those men, very soon.
My life is picking up steam right now. I mean professionally. The rewards for actually fighting and winning this fight are not worth the price I will have to pay. It has become very clear that I am the obvious culprit as soon as someone hears about this incident. I am NOT willing to compromise my professional life, given that I am not even going to stay here, or come back here.
I MIGHT have taken up this fight and spear headed it. But only if they hadn’t dropped the charges against me. Then they would have forced me to fight, and I would have fought them. 
In that case, I’d fight them tooth and nail, and I’d fight for this cause with all my might. I’d have shun anonymity and I’d have risked it all. My life, my career, my relationships, my social status, my reputation, my money, my years, my youth… everything. I’d have fought till the end of my life if I have to.
But they have withdrawn the case. And I will go back to my life as if nothing happened.

“Blessed is a man who fights for a cause”

Having a mission in life… a cause you can fight for… that’s the best thing that can ever happen to you. Most people who suffer needlessly and mercilessly at the hands of the system/mindsets/criminals take up their cause, and fight. They do because this is the most miraculous and transformational thing that happens in their life.
In my case, I already have my cause. I already have a mission I have dedicated my life to. I already have a purpose for my life. And even with this entire drama going on, my purpose keeps pinging and beeping me mentally every minute. It demands my attention, and it demands my time. It demands my energy, and my money. It demands me. I am already committed to a purpose and to fighting for a cause. Whether or not my ongoing cause is as big and potentially as impactful as this one is inconsequential. 
For I am a man, and I stick to my commitments. 
Three years ago I committed to a cause, and I am in no way, shape, or form going to devote myself to another one in this life… Unless I have absolutely no other choice.

If I have to pay a price in terms of a few slaps, lost relationships, lost reputation, guilty stature, labels and lost resources, but I can go on with my ongoing commitment, I will pay it. 

Spreading awareness about the sensitivity of this issue is not in my plan. Not yet. And I will stop at nothing to make sure that I can accomplish my ongoing mission in life without a major deviation, such as fighting for this cause.
And that is why I never wanted to take up this cause. 
Once again, since I am out of here in a few months anyways, and I am going forever, this is NOT my fight. But it’s yours, and you have been warned what Indian cops are capable of doing.
Lastly, I am NOT willing to let my family pay for this fight. Even if this were my fight, it’s certainly not theirs. I don’t have much money right now (my career has just begun taking off) and I am NOT about to use their money or resources for this fight. It’s not something I’d ever do.
Where are the women in all this?
I noticed, as some men pointed out, that there are very few women up-voting, or commenting on my answer. And if you are perplexed, don’t be. It’s natural. I always knew only a rare woman would support this cause. Publicly, at least. And almost every woman who comments will find flaws with my approach, as if that has something to do with the law! But this is to be expected.
Don’t ask me why… Not because I can’t tell you, but because it is too s*xist. It’s that side of truth that everyone actively avoids, especially in politically correct environments. Me? I don’t fear repercussions of saying the things I know. But I won’t do it because- again, the juice is not worth the squeeze.
What makes ME the designated expert?
Well, as you can imagine… I have had more than a lion’s share when it comes to s*xual and platonic connections and relationships with women. You wouldn’t believe me if I told you, but you’d know it instinctively if you saw me. 
As it also happens, I love women. Still do… even after what that particular woman did to me. I love women. Not all, but some. I feel women enrich my life. They are the source of one of the greatest joys of my life, if not THE greatest source (which is my passion for my purpose).
I am also an avid student of psychology, and gender dynamics and politics. I spend so much time reading about this stuff that things are crystal clear to me. Also many women confess things to me that are so politically incorrect that it might make your mind blow. It’s more counter intuitive than most men can imagine.
So I know.
But I’ll save the explanation, for that is irrelevant. What is relevant is that this is to be expected, and totally unsurprising.
Moving on…
The Issue of Un-datable Indian Women
I fell in love with an Indian girl. She is marrying another guy her father chose for her. My heart bled for her. Not as much now as it did some time ago, but I still find myself wondering how I bought into all her promises. I always knew better than to trust any woman’s words. 
Indian women are OK. Just like any other race or nationality. 
There is a bell curve. Most average Indian women ascribe to the stereotypes. Stereotypes didn’t come out of vacuum. They are here for a reason. Which is to saymost stereotypes are true.
Very few Indian women are exceptionally good. Very few are exceptionally bad. In this case of being beaten up, I did happen to chance upon an exceptionally bad woman. And I agree that doesn’t make every woman out there exceptionally vengeful and full of hate.
Does the average Indian woman behave like she did? NO. Absolutely NOT. I have approached more than my fair share of random unknown women for coffee, or even something more discreet. Many took my offer, most didn’t. The average Indian woman never was as vindictive as this “doctor”.
But the fact remains- the average Indian woman has too much power. In Delhi, at least, women have been given too much power. And power corrupts. Let me explain…

  • If just one woman chooses to do this to you… over hundreds of approaches over decades of flirting, it can threaten the very existence of your life.
  • And no amount of love, s*x, tenderness, affection, loyalty or giddiness is worth risking your career and reputation for. Not for me, at least.
  • Not even if I could find the most loyal, loving and tender woman in India would I risk my career and reputation to find her. It’s just too big a risk when cops are unaware of the basic human rights and constitution.
  • Where freedom of speech is merely a myth, speaking is not what I’d do. Once again this needs to change, but this isn’t my fight.

So long as men are by default criminals, and women by default victims… YES, a HUGE RESOUNDING YES, Indian women are un-datable. And I’ll go on to say, unapproachable, or even unwatchable. 

Someone told me a story about how he was beaten up just for looking at a woman he felt attracted to. Just for looking at her. Not approaching, not talking, not making an offer... just looking.
The risk of dating Indian women is just too high. 

The risk of approaching women is too high. 

And so is the risk of looking at them. 


My Situation: Where We Are At Now?

My parents and relatives arranged a lawyer for me. I was specifically and clearly instructed to “bow my head” and “fall at their feet” and “beg for forgiveness.” I was not to utter a word unless spoken to, and I was to write and sign a document saying I will not ever ask another woman out on a date.
I didn’t know if I could manage to fall at their feet or beg for forgiveness. I thought the best I might be able to manage is, “I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intention to.” It is very hard for me to say things that I don’t say with authenticity.
And that is exactly what I said.
I DID sign the paper though… Because that is the truth. I intend to ask no woman out on a date as long as I am in India. No woman is worth the risk, like I said. I’ll go abroad soon, and that’s when I will connect with women again. But Indian women can’t have my love, as I don’t see the system changing anytime for the better in the near future.
Maybe Indian women abroad can.
One thing I will not do though… is to act like a coward. I won’t deny my s*xual desires. I won’t deny that I WANT to love and be loved. I won’t be “just friends” with a woman, hoping that someday she’ll initiate a s*xual relationship with me. Just because some people get uncomfortable, I am not going to change myself for the WORSE. And in my opinion (The only one that counts in MY life) hiding the fact that you are s*xually attracted to woman… and that you are talking to her because you are s*xually attracted to her… That’s cowardice. Weasel-like, and manipulative. And I won’t do it. So is trying to get a woman to like you or be interested in you. 
My strategy is to weed out the low-interest people from my life right off the bat. 
So far it has been definitively worth it. My approaches only work with women who are so attracted to me that I can really do no wrong with them. And that’s great because that IS what I want. I am not even remotely interested in a woman who isn’t into me, and is inflexible. I want to be rejected when there is not enough interest.
Sure, I like to know a woman before getting involved. Actually if you knew me personally you’d know my standards transcend almost any other man’s that you might have met or observed. And that is why I invite women out to have coffee with me… To get to know them. “First dates are interviews” as Van Wilder rightly said. That’s where I get to know women. But I asked this doctor out purely on the basis of physical s*xual attraction, and there is no denying that.
I also want a woman to reject me immediately if she’s not attracted to me, or if she’s not available. A blunt approach like this helps me save time. It requires massive confidence, and I have it. People who have offered me advice on how to pick up women… save it. Try acting as courageously as I did, and do, and then we’ll talk. 
Again, to deny that I approached her merely because of pure s*xual attraction would be a lie. Furthermore, I feel that would be a huge insult to me, my s*xuality and to the greatness of all the great men of ancient and modern or contemporary history.
I am a man, and I own my desires.
I was born with them. I will die with them. And there is not a ***-***** thing anyone can do to change them.
I won’t lie about them either.
I know my role. My role is to be the aggressor. I can control and wield my s*xuality well. I don’t inflict pain, or harm. I don’t try to “convert” someone into an interested prospect. I just move on. I never press or persist in case of disinterest.
Most importantly, I don’t breach the laws.
But in India law isn’t constant or objective. It changes depending upon who’s judging. And cops really have no clue.

But I refuse to live and love in a community where my natural desires are tantamount to punishment. My gifts are better bestowed elsewhere.

So I will get out of here. The price I pay to be born as a boy in India is that I will stay without love for an unforeseeable amount of time. 
Fine! So be it!
Yours truly,
Hoping to stay anonymous
A Real Man in a World of Cowards

P.S. It's over now. It's all in the past for me. Tomorrow morning, I'll start acting as if nothing  happened. I've got some catching up to do. This event has actually added fuel to my fire, when it comes to ambition. Now more than ever I am highly motivated to do well professionally and get out of here. Maybe in the end, it was a worthwhile lesson. For me, as well as for you hopefully.

I am glad that I stayed anonymous, and acted out rationally. Now I have no more time, energy or money to waste on this incident. 

For better and not for worse, this has sharpened my focus. So that's the silver lining.

P.P.S. I won't be replying to many comments from now on, since there are too many. I have addressed many issues raised by people, and that's that.

I came here looking for compassion, and I found it. 

I found support, and I found that I was not alone. Thank you.

I also read some hilarious comments, and I am grateful for those too.

But most importantly, I am thankful that there exists a community of people where intelligence and logic are valued over emotion and obsession.


 6 Replies

Shantanu Wavhal (Worker)     19 April 2014

this man suffered for talking to a Parayee Aaurat.


most ppl. here are suffering for DOING NOTHING to their own Aaurat.

1 Like

alia_alian (journalism)     19 April 2014

chup ho ja sale... . . . . .rulayega kya?

Sugam Dayal (Business)     23 April 2014

well - its hilarious to see such a small incident put u into lot of trouble.

i think the better way out was holding their legs and producing ur apology.


said that, i wont say its an issue with indian woman, but with indian men. if you see lots of molestation cases come up these days in every part of india. Indian women actually live in horror...they dont know when they will be raped...or molested...

Also Indian woman are also not that open in terms of starting relationship or friendship with any unknown.

so all these escalated the situation and you got into trouble.

i think cultural differences are there. we cannot accept the woman in western culture to accept to live with there in-laws ...which happens in India...if "I" force woman in western culture to live and they don't want to ...they will file a police report, i will get into same confusion as to what i did wrong...just asked her to move to my house. in India girls are always taught live with their husband and in-laws irrespective of differences.


I think its more about the cultural difference

Shantanu Wavhal (Worker)     23 April 2014

Originally posted by : Dr Diamond

well - its hilarious to see such a small incident put u into lot of trouble.

i think the better way out was holding their legs and producing ur apology.


said that, i wont say its an issue with indian woman, but with indian men. if you see lots of molestation cases come up these days in every part of india. Indian women actually live in horror...they dont know when they will be raped...or molested...

Also Indian woman are also not that open in terms of starting relationship or friendship with any unknown.

so all these escalated the situation and you got into trouble.

i think cultural differences are there. we cannot accept the woman in western culture to accept to live with there in-laws ...which happens in India...if "I" force woman in western culture to live and they don't want to ...they will file a police report, i will get into same confusion as to what i did wrong...just asked her to move to my house. in India girls are always taught live with their husband and in-laws irrespective of differences.


I think its more about the cultural difference



have u ever been to India ??

Sugam Dayal (Business)     23 April 2014

by the way when i say hilarious, i dont mean to undermine your situation. i am just trying  highlight irony with current indian society wherein...even a person with good heart and intensions can be wrongly held....and this is not the civilization which is responsible, but the moral behavior of stronger and weaker s*x.

Yadanand Legal help (maintenance divorce remarriage =     24 April 2014

If you can keep aside your EGO you can live with any woman happily.

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