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Parking issues in mumbai housing societies

Page no : 3

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     29 November 2013

I am unable to find anything in the Consumer Protection Act, 1986 under which your complaint can come. The complaints listed in the Act are 

1.Unfair Trade Practice 2.Goods sold suffer from defects 3.Service given  suffers from deficiency 4. The seller has charged excess price 5. Has supplied hazardous goods  or 6. The opposite party is engaged in restrictive trade practice.

I am interested in knowing under which one in the above list is your complaint.

The Act also says 

Service – means service of any descripttion ----------------- but does not include the rendering of any service free of charge.

Generally the Managing Committee members do not draw any salary or remuneration and hence their service would not come under the provisions of the Act.

Section 14 of the Act lists 11 types of reliefs given by the Forum. I am unable to find which one will be applicable to your case.

What is the relief sought by you? Probably you may have requested that the Forum should order the Managing Committee not to allow or give permission for the kind of unauthorized parking of cars. The Managing Committee may cancel if they have given any written permission which they may have given. But what about those who do not care for the Managing Committee and park their cars? The MC of a Society has no powers to physically remove any person. What they can do is only to complain to the Police or file a case in a civil court? These are things which you could also have done.

In my opinion the Managing Committee of a Housing Society is neither a trader nor a service provider. The Committee members are only volunteers elected from the members by the members of the Society by turn.

There must be commercial dealing for anything to come under the CPA. A Co-operative Consumer Society is a Society of consumers and consumers only. They are not traders.

By the way, are you in Maharashtra, is yours a Co-operative Housing Society and are you a member of the Society?

KERSI (Mg Prt)     30 November 2013

Yes my advocate told me that the society cases are filed in the Consumer Disputes Redressal Forum at Bandra. If the same was not applicable as mentioned the hearings would not have taken place and the date for order would not have been given.

I do am a member of the society and the irony is that there is nobody who voices their grudge in front of the MC, but choose to speak behind their backs and also instigate one against the other.

Why did the judge give an extended date in March and asked for re-submission of case papers if what you mentioned is correct.

My submission on this is no matter what JUSTICE or JUDGMENT is also passed by a human being, he is also a son, husband, & father, his first priority. Under pressure he is bound to take shelter safeguarding himself.

VERY SOON I PRESUME LAWLESSNESS WOULD BE TAKING OVER, the day would not be far when the MIGHTY would prevail & weaklings would get shunned. 

KERSI (Mg Prt)     04 December 2013

Dear Mr. Ramni,

You were very closely following this post knowing very well that you are representing the society. You wanted to know if this case was of Mumbai? Once you knew what & confirmed I posted this, you just calmly chose to ignore. You had once briefly met outside the courtroom and said that if I had just plainly asked for an additional parking as everyone else did, I would have been given. But does that not amount to discretionary powers being used by the MC? 

Knowing the society is doing an illegal act, you prefer to support them & also use tactics for getting your monetary gain, but there is a court above all, you know that, as & when these people & you reach there, you cannot but accept yourself guilty. You may keep buying time, nothing more. There is an apt saying,

YOU CAN FOOL SOME PEOPLE FOR SOME TIME

YOU CAN FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE FOR SOME TIME

BUT YOU CANNOT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.

 

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     05 December 2013

Dear Mr. Ramni,

 

You were very closely following this post knowing very well that you are representing the society.

 

Which Society am I representing, your society?  I do not know which Society are you? I am not even a member of your Society. How can I represent? Or do you mean my Society? I am only an ordinary member of my Society and not at all a Managing Committee member. There are no car parking problem here. Ours is a poor Society and there are not too many cars as to create any problem

 

You wanted to know if this case was of Mumbai? Once you knew what & confirmed I posted this, you just calmly chose to ignore.

 

Yes I wanted to know whether your Society was in Mumbai. It was just to find out whether Maharashtra laws will apply to your Society. I do not understand this “chose to ignore”.

 

You had once briefly met outside the courtroom and said that if I had just plainly asked for an additional parking as everyone else did, I would have been given. But does that not amount to discretionary powers being used by the MC? 

 

I never met you in any court room so far. In fact I have never met you anywhere in the World. I never offered you any additional parking space. This is funny and Quixotic. This is just your imagination. Who am I to promise you any parking space?

 

Knowing the society is doing an illegal act, you prefer to support them & also use tactics for getting your monetary gain, but there is a court above all, you know that, as & when these people & you reach there, you cannot but accept yourself guilty. You may keep buying time, nothing more.

 

I have nothing to do with any illegal act of your Society or that of any other Society anywhere. I am just an ordinary citizen. I am an ordinary member of a housing society just because, like everyone else I also need a place to stay.

 

There is an apt saying,

 

YOU CAN FOOL SOME PEOPLE FOR SOME TIME

YOU CAN FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE FOR SOME TIME

BUT YOU CANNOT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.

 

These were the words of President John F. Kennedy. He meant his powerful rivals. What powers do I have?

 

My interest in this Forum in just “Law”.  I comment on the applications of law in a neutral manner.

 

Anyway if you have no objection I shall meet you in the court-room at your next hearing provided that I am welcome.

 

You have mistaken me for someone else.

Good Luck

 

 

 

KERSI (Mg Prt)     06 December 2013

Dear Mr. Ramni,

My profound apologies if I have mistaken you for the society lawyer. As mentioned earlier the respondent advocate after the last hearing (when the judge said the next date is being given for order) this gentleman introduced himself as Mr. Ramni outside the court premises & told in front of my advocate, as was mentioned earlier. As there was no post for two days, I presumed the person was the same.

I have absolutely no objection in meeting you & are more than welcome to join in if you so desire., As a matter of fact I don't mind meeting earlier also. 

Once again I offer my sincere apologies for the mistaken identity. 

shyam (partner)     08 April 2014

sir,

i have purchased a flat in pune in the year 2008 from the builder.

He had promised a stilt parking with the flat at the time of booking , which would   be included in the price , but at the time of possesion he refused and asked for 1.5 lacs for the stilt parking space , which I did not pay, Now the MC has alloted parking as per the builders allotment letter to all the members who paid the builder  . The builder has provided 400 stilt parking for 827 flats . The MC has passes a resolution in the general body that there are 5/6 parking spaces unalloted and thoses who want them, have to pay Rs 30000 per year in advance for utilising the car parking . visitors parking can be used only for 3 days, after which they pay 500 per day. . The members who have been alloted parking slots ,  do not pay any money to the society.

my Query:

 1.  are the other members/tenants  not entitled to parking . Can the open spaces be used for parking and be alloted to those, who do not have a parking space, at a nominal charge ?

2. how can the society charge such a high rate for parking. what is the legal recourse for this .

 

 

 

sir,

i have purchased a flat in pune in the year 2008 from the builder.

He had promised a stilt parking with the flat at the time of booking , which would   be included in the price , but at the time of possesion he refused and asked for 1.5 lacs for the stilt parking space , which I did not pay, Now the MC has alloted parking as per the builders allotment letter to all the members who paid the builder  . The builder has provided 400 stilt parking for 827 flats . The MC has passes a resolution in the general body that there are 5/6 parking spaces unalloted and thoses who want them, have to pay Rs 30000 per year in advance for utilising the car parking . visitors parking can be used only for 3 days, after which they pay 500 per day. . The members who have been alloted parking slots ,  do not pay any money to the society.

my Query:

 1.  are the other members/tenants  not entitled to parking . Can the open spaces be used for parking and be alloted to those, who do not have a parking space, at a nominal charge ?

2. how can the society charge such a high rate for parking. what is the legal recourse for this

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     09 April 2014

Mr. Shyam

You should have posted your complaint as a separate original post rather than inserting it into an old dialogue lying dormant for 4 months.

The builder promised you a parking lot and then demanded additional payment. Have you got any kind of evidence to prove your case?

Some other members paid him for the parking lot and the builder gave a letter to the Society giving a list of such members. Is there a conveyance deed regarding sale of the parking lot to each of those other members? Had those members paid stamp duty for the purchase of the parking space? There would have been  sale deeds for the sale of flats, stamp duty would have been paid on them and the deeds registered with the Registrar of Assurances. Does your sale deed mention the parking lot? Do the sale deeds of others mention the sale of the parking lots. If the answers to all these questions are "No", then the whole affair is fraud and illegal. You can file a complaint against the Builder before the consumer forum having jurisdiction and add the names of the Society and the other members for connivance with the Builder.

The Model Bye-laws as amended in 2013 says:

78(b) The allotment of Parking Space shall be made by the Committee on the basis of "First Come First Served", for unsold and available parking spaces

The Committee can allot only those parking spaces which are not sold to any member.

As regards demanding Rs.30000/- per annum, the bye-laws by implication speaks about parking fees on a monthly basis only. But there is nothing against charging on an annual basis. Has any member paid Rs.30000/- and taken parking space? Again you can file complaint before the consumer court against unreasonably high charges. The burden of proving the unreasonableness may be on you. You will have to collect information on parking charges prevailing in the locality.

Joy Burman (Art Director)     30 July 2014

Hi,

I am having similar problem regarding parking space. I booked my flat on Dec 2009 and got possession on 31st March, 2014 (4 months back) from a reputed builder in Thane. Since I never thought of owning a car, I didn’t go for purchasing a parking space on booking. But now last month we bought a car and discovered several issues regarding parking in my newly owned complex.


Issues as follows:

1) Suddenly builder has removed all the open parking space by saying Municipal is not allowing ‘open parking’, therefore no provision for open parking.

2) All the stilt parking has been already sold. But the builder is not disclosing buyer’s list.

3) Now the only available parking option remains are the Stack parking below podium area. For which builder is asking Rs. 4,00,000/- (Rupees four lakh). But the rate was Rs.50K for open parking, Rs.1.5 Lac for Podium and Rs.2.5 Lac for stilt during booking.

4) Now builder is warning that they won’t allow any car inside compound who didn’t bought parking. There is no society generated till date and builder will handover the society after 2 years. They have already recovered 2 yrs society maintenance and club house charges from the buyers.


Now my concern is:

1) Rs. 4 lac for parking against Rs.1.5 lac is too much. How the builder can demand such ad-hock prices???

2) Do the 'Open parking' is really not allowed nowadays by MCGM or TMC??? Is there any law revised??

3) If the SC judgement says “Builder Can’t sell parking space”. Then how can they sell parking space with such high-rate??

4) What should I do to avail a parking space without paying such illogical huge amount?? I also don’t have such huge amount.
 
5) Since there is no society in place right now… Do they really have authority to not allowing a car owned by the member of the complex???

6) Why there is no other options given by the builder to avail the parking space apart from purchasing the same???  


Please help me and guide me on my above concerns.

Kishor Mehta (CEO)     31 July 2014

Dear Mr. Burman,

[1] The builder/developer can not sell car parking space;

[2] The allotment of parking space is governed by the rules and regulations of the Maharashtra CHS Bye-Laws.

I have attached the relevant judgments of the Superior Courts as also the rules governing car parking in a CHS.

Good Luck,

Kishor Mehta


Attached File : 109011409 [130508] car parking laws & judgments.pdf downloaded: 183 times

Joy Burman (Art Director)     31 July 2014

Dear Mr. Mehta,

Many many thanks for your reply and guidance, it will boost my moral for sure. Could you also let me know about the following query please:

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a) Since my complex is not yet society registered. To whome should I approach for parking space but without buying it??

b) What to do if in case the builder doesn't allow my car entering into the complex since I didn't bought parking??

c) What to do if in case the builder saying no parking space available for free allotment inspite of having several empty parking lots??

d) Most importantly since when did the TMC / MCGM banned the open parking space in society??

Please help me!

Kishor Mehta (CEO)     31 July 2014

Sir,

A builder is legally bound to get an O.C. from the municipal corporation immediately on completion of the building, and to form & register a Society. He is further legally obliged to convey the titles of the land and building to the Society with a registered conveyance in favour of the Society, and the time limit specified for these is 4 months after completion of the building.

Till a Society is registered the property technically belongs to the builder and if you have paid the full value of the flat  you can request the builder to allow you a parking space on moral grounds only.

Alternatively, if the building is complete, then you can ask the builder to give you a copy of the O.C. and also ask him to form a Society and hand over the possession of the property to the Society, informing him that he has no right to sell parking spaces in the building. You can approach other purchasers of the flats in the building and can issue a collective notice in the matter.

Parking in the compound of the Society is not banned. Only care is to be taken to keep sufficient space for a fire engine to approach the building in case of a fire.

Good Luck,

Kishor Mehta

KERSI (Mg Prt)     31 July 2014

My Parking issue is still unresolved. My previous correspondence on this issue as you can notice on this forum with so many experts giving their view, then even after appointing a reputed lawyer for this case in the co-op consumer court from the last two years, the hearing is postponed for three months every time. Each time the order is the case has been now slated for so and so date.

When rules are framed & several supreme court judgement's are documented, as a petitioner the case is being dragged. My advocate mentions some more years shall lapse for the final order to come. Even then the Managing Committee can proceed against the judgement order in State Forum court then National. JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED. Now the reason every time is shortage of staff even Judges.

My query is, as a law abiding citizen why are judgement not delivered immediately even when there is no doubt & the respondents are making merry & troubling the passive citizens. 

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     03 August 2014

This discussion has been going on for very long with expert members even contradicting their own opinions given earlier. For instance Mr. Kishor Mehta said 2 years ago and repeated 2 days back that builder cannot sell or allot stilt or parking spaces. But in between 11 months ago he quoted the bye-laws to say “Member may hold parking space/ stilt if he is allotted the same, and he shall have a right to transfer the same to other eligible member of the same Society.”

If a builder cannot sell a parking lot, who allots it to the member and how can he hold a parking space with a right to transfer it to another member?

The problem is that people read the first and last sentences of a judgment and come to  hasty conclusions. The Supreme Court judgment was with regard to a particular case on which the judgment was given. Otherwise sale, purchase and ownership of an immovable property, whether it is to park a car or to construct a house or any other, is a fundamental right. I hasten to add here that I am not using the word “fundamental” with the same meaning as it has in our Constitution. If someone can suggest an alternative adjective to avoid confusion, I welcome it.

The second question is whether consumer courts have jurisdiction over disputes between a member and his Society. Notwithstanding several judgments, my answer to this question is an emphatic “no”. In all such cases the Societies have lost the case because their lawyers have miserably failed them.

I wish to state here that all co-operative societies are not similar. A co-operative housing society is in a class by itself. It is different from a co-operative bank or a co-operative store.  A housing society is a group of consumers who have come together and organised themselves to get various services to themselves. The services are rendered by outside individuals and bodies and the elected Managing Committee of the Society get the services performed, collect funds from members and pay for the services without retaining any money for the Society itself. In fact if any excess funds are collected from the members it remains in the accounts of the Society for future expenditure on behalf of the members. The Society is bound to render account to each member, how much was collected from him and how the amounts collected from him were applied to various items of expenditure. The Society is only a route to transfer funds from the members to the service providers. Such an arrangement is called mutuality. In fact the amounts collected from members are not “income” for the purpose of Income-tax Act. A Society is liable to pay income-tax only on outside incomes such as bank interest, which do not come into the mutuality principle.

The Consumer Protection Act, 1986 [the Act] is intended to protect consumers from others, who are collectively known as the Opposite Party, who include manufacturers, dealers and sellers of goods, service providers etc. So far in disputes between a member of a Society and the Society in consumer courts the member who is the complainant has been considered under the term “consumer” and the Society under the term “service provider” I am proceeding here to show that neither of the term is applicable under the Act.

Section 2 (d)(ii) of the Act defines a Consumer thus:

(d)  “Consumer” means any person who –

(ii) hires or avails of any services for a consideration (italics mine) which has been paid or promised or partly paid and partly promised, or under any system of deferred payment and includes any beneficiary of such services other than the person who buys such goods for consideration paid or promised or partly paid and partly promised, or under any system of deferred payment, when such services are availed of with the approval of the first mentioned person but does not include a person who avails of such services for any commercial purposes.

What a Society member pays to the Society does not include any consideration to the Society. The entire amount the member pays is passed on to the service provider, who is an outsider. Hence a member of a Co-operative Housing Society is not a “consumer” under the Act.

Further subsection (o) of the same section says:

(o) “service” means service of any descripttion which is made available to potential users and includes, but not limited to, the provision of facilities in connection with banking, financing, insurance, transport, processing, supplying electrical or other energy, board or lodging or both, housing construction, entertainment, amusement or purveying of news or other information, but does not include the rendering of any service free of charge or under a contract of personal service.

A Society does not collect for itself any amount for providing the services. Whatever is collected from the members is passed on to the service providers outside the Society. Members of the Managing Committee, who have their own full time vocations to earn their own livelihood, are only volunteers, who spare their valuable time to serve the Society. In fact even if the Managing Committee members are paid any remuneration, the Society would not become a “service provider”, because the Managing Committee members are only salaried servants of the Society just like other servants like sweepers.

 I do not say that there cannot be any dispute between a member and his Society. My only contention is that the Act, in its present form is not equipped to give solution to the dispute. Often the judgment of a consumer court can give funny and disastrous results. It will be funny for onlookers and disastrous for the parties involved. I illustrate here one case.

In multi-storied buildings it is very common that there is leakage from the upper floor to the lower floor. In one such case in a co-operative society in Mumbai the member residing in a flat on the lower floor filed a complaint in the consumer court against his own Society and the member on the upper floor. The case as stated was that the member on the upper floor had carried out some repairs, renovations or other work in his flat, which resulted into leakage down to the lower floor flat. The complaints of the member, on the lower floor,  to the Society and the member on the upper floor went unheeded and hence the lower floor member went before the consumer forum. The lawyers of the Society implicitly admitted that they were “service providers” under the Act and presented their own side of the case. They did not dispute the jurisdiction of the consumer forum to try the case on the lines mentioned above by me. The lawyers of Opposite Party No.2, the upper floor member,  gave a routine rebuttal of everything.

The Consumer Forum ordered the Society to pay to the Complainant the cost of repairs. It let off the upper floor member saying that he was not a “service provider” under the Act.

What happened afterwards? :

The lower floor member carried out the repairs and presented his bills to the Society. The Society called a General Body Meeting, apprised them of the award of the consumer forum and asked the members (including the complainant) to share the cost. The members refused and said that the MC members should themselves shell out the amount from their own pockets. Now the Society has gone on appeal before the State Commission. It will be interesting to see the decision of the Commission.

This case illustrates that Consumer court cannot adjudicate between a member and the Society of a Co-operative Housing Society. The real person who should have been held responsible was the upper floor member. It is not only that he has to bear the cost, but the leakage cannot be stopped without working on the upper floor. It means that the case should have gone before a court, which could order the upper floor member to allow workers to enter upon his flat and do the repairs including undoing of any cosmetic work done by him under the threat of eviction otherwise. Only Co-operative Courts are equipped for that.

There is a story about Lord Shiva in the South. Once upon a time a kingdom was flooded and the king had to mobilize labour force to contain the floods by constructing bunds. He ordered every household in his kingdom to depute one person for the labour force. There was an old lady living alone and making life by selling breads. She did not have anyone to be sent. Lord Shiva appeared before her like a labourer and offered his services. In return she was to give him enough bread to eat. Lord Shiva ate to his heart’s content and went away. Later when the work was over the king came making his round. He saw the worker sleeping well. He became angry. He took out his whip and lashed him on his back. Everyone present there, including the king, felt the lash on their backs. If a Society is punished every member including the complainant gets punished.

 

 

Kishor Mehta (CEO)     03 August 2014

Dr. MPS Ramani PhD,

Sir,

With utmost respect, I cite a part of your observation here under, and beg to state as under:

"For instance Mr. Kishor Mehta said 2 years ago and repeated 2 days back that builder cannot sell or allot stilt or parking spaces. But in between 11 months ago he quoted the bye-laws to say “Member may hold parking space/ stilt if he is allotted the same, and he shall have a right to transfer the same to other eligible member of the same Society.”

I stand by my comments, the passing of time does not change the meaning of the legislation.

The builder definitely can not sell or allot the parking spaces, it is very clearly laid down in the MCS Act 1960, and it is amply decided by the Courts very many times. 

The parking spaces are allotted by the Managing Committee of a Co-Operative Housing Society specifically, and the member can transfer the same to other eligible member of the same society.

"If a builder cannot sell a parking lot, who allots it to the member and how can he hold a parking space with a right to transfer it to another member?"

The builder/developer has to hand over possession of the entire property to the Society. If you will kindly refer the MCS Act 1960 these facts will be clear to you.

Once again I would stress the point that the Managing Committee of a Co-Operative Housing Society only can allot parking space, this allotment is done after the registration of the Society and election of a Managing Committee. 

"The problem is that people read the first and last sentences of a judgment and come to  hasty conclusions. The Supreme Court judgment was with regard to a particular case on which the judgment was given. Otherwise sale, purchase and ownership of an immovable property, whether it is to park a car or to construct a house or any other, is a fundamental right."

For allotment of parking space in a CHS, separate laws have been formed in Maharashtra, these are called The MCS Act 1960, and these govern the rights and remedies of a CHS.

Please understand that property rights are not fundamental rights, they have been converted to Mandatory Rights, i.e. Rights bestowed by legislation. 

It is not fair to have singled me out, I read the laws and the judgements in toto, not the first and the last sentences as you have very kindly observed. I have been in the field since 1954, and always take extra care before I venture any suggestion.

Anyway I have not taken any offence, only I would request you to perfect your home-work about the matter before passing any criticizing comments on any individuals.

Good Luck,

Kishor Mehta

Joy Burman (Art Director)     04 August 2014

Dear Sir,
My builder has made a good strategy ( Malpractices ) to rob us further on parking space. He is alloting parking spaces and sticker to those people who has paid them on possession. Many who didn't agreed to pay like me has been asked to remove our car from building compound. Else pay Rs. 4 Lac to get allotment and sticker from the builder. Inspite of informing about the illegality of such demand they are not bothering at all.
 
I just don't want to pay any amount for parking. Don't know what to do now. Can anybody help me please.

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