living relationship validity

Madam, you are saying you are in a live in relationship even after both being married and there is no objection form either side spouses. We have heard that live in relationship is valid in foreign countries. Then, how come they do not allow two persons to stay together ? And even if they ask you about your marital status, both of you are married..!! If they do not allow unmarried persons to stay together, what is the meaning of live in relationship..? 

Dear Madam Suchitra,

Live in relationship is not allowed in few foreign countries,  we cannot share the apartment, we cannot travel together, etc etc. even to travel around also, you should be married. and since both of our respective spouces know about our relationship, there is not going to be any legal problem. hence need advise how can we get register our live in relationship.

If you are travelling to Turkey or some  Araibain countries where live in relationship is not allowed, then it is a problem for you. According to those countries, you are married, but to some other person than with whom you are going to stay there... :(

As long as Indian laws are concerned, we are not registering live in relationships. 

I think we both posted the reply at the same time, Madam.. :)

I do not see any legal remedy for your problem. Here we do not have laws which allow a person to stay with two people as yet...  :(

@ Suchitra or others

Its understood that, live in relationshipt can not be registered in India.  Do u have any idea on my questions in my post regarding the livin relationship.

Thanks, satish

Sir, I really do not remember your post. Will you please give the link so that I can try to answer ?

@ Suchitra

Madam, im re-posting the same below:

Jami of Law's statement "Two married adults  and specifically a male and a female and both not married to each other (let's say, both in their seventy's or even in twenties) can stay together legally and even in the same room or same bed, as long as their respectve spouses are not able to prove that their other 'half' indulged into adultary/physical relationship, without their consent or knowledge." is pretty much clear.

But the question here is, how one can prove the adultery or the physical relationship?  What are the means of proving it?

Let us assume, A(married man to X and not divorced) and B(married woman to Y and not divorced) are in the live-in relationship.  So what are the solutions for following possibiliteis:

1. What and how X can prove that man A has some physical relationship with  woman B. and even if she proves what kind of legal actions can be taken against man A.

2. what and how Y can prove that woman B is in adultry with man A.  if he can prove, what kind of legal actions can be taken against women B.

3.  If A and B have given a birth to a baby(A and B are not married, they are in live in relationship only), then what legal actions can be taken by their respective spouses X or Y.  How can they prove that the baby is born to A and B.  What legal provisions exist to prove that baby is born to A and B.

4. is the baby is a legitamate child or illegitamate?

Sir, Let me answer your questions in their respective order :

1. X , being a woman, cannot file a case of 'adultery' against her husband. There is no provision like that. An adultery case can be filed by a husband only. Please go through the s. 497 of IPC.

2. 'Y' should prove the facts alleged through evidences. It is the burden on the complainant to prove the allegations made. May be through telephone call details, msges, emails, travel tickets, lodging details, cross examinations....whatever means. 

S.497 provides for the punishment of imprisonment upto 5years, or fine or both.

3. There are tests like DNA test to prove the parentage of the baby. 

4. The child born out of the wedlock too have every right on par with any other child of those parents. The child will not be called illegitimate in the eyes of law.

Suchitra ji,

Sounds good.  Thanks for your kind reply.

Your research is like passing 'all OK"  completetion certificate for a shaky structural engineering project ! Take it as a compliment to ask one of the best questions under family law believe me.


“He that hath a wife and children hath given hostages to fortune; for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief.”
By - Francis Bacon, English writer and philosopher (1561-1626).

First of all, its alien to Indians and its totally foreign. Live in relations and premarital s*x has no sanction in any of major religions and it amounts only to sin and not an offence as observed by the SC. I am not sorry to observe that SC has blindly ignored religious aspects of such relations and without the tenets of religious teachings no nation, no civilization has flourished. Such allowance shall only give negative results and the society is heading towards destruction. SC has encouraged concubine culture (though it does not amount to prostitution as of today but leading to legal sanction very soon) and the sanctity of marriage shall go down.

Prostitution is nothing but selling (for payment) one's body for money, most of the time unwillingly. That is a different story altogether.

Animals have s*x knowing fully well who is responsible for the babies born. Generally the female animal has a choice of having s*x or not with the male. Unfortunately, and very sadly, not so with most women.
 

One has to draw a line between sin and offence. Sin has religious / ethical implications and offence has only legal implications. What about the kids born out of this relation? Would the society recognise them? Before endorsing live in relation and premarital s*x. SC should adequately safeguard and gurantee the rights of children born from this relations.

These children must be given legal rights or else these children are called as "b*st*rds". The change is not that easy as thought by SC. Long way to go and I dont endorse what SC has said. The judges are not divine and they are too human. I ask these judges to reserve judgment and pass the judgment only after reading major religious scripttures like Bible, Geetha, Quran and Vedas. These hon’ble judges are lacking spiritual knowledge and they may be masters in material knowledge but paupers in spirituality.

It won't be wrong if I add here that 'every application has side effects' because, live-in relationships is the result of an ambitious career / busy corporate life and or bored housewife extra homely activity. Man and woman are equally responsible for this development.

Live-in relationship is a Hi-Tech ADULTRY as well as Hi-Tech BIGAMY in present author’s question context said it!!! The union of a man and a woman is considered as one of the most sacred act. But incited by anything from movies to daily TV Serials, the younger generation, has started leading a very liberal lifestyle. In a bid to know their partners better, they denounce the age-old ethics and get down to some serious living together agreements. One needs to really dig into the pros and cons of living together to know what he or she is getting into.
 

After above morality big talks which you may totally ignore my helpful observations are as follows:-


What the author of this post asked in my opinion is one of the best questions till date a WIFE has ever asked and truely you are a bala on all counts and I give you 100 / 100. Tell me you say your husband is OK with you if you live in with another married man and icing on this relationship is that the other married man's wife is also Ok. So I am curious to know why remain in bond of "marriage" when your husband is ok and simultaneously the other married women whose husband you are in live-in is also OK in such 'economics of adjustments (read agreements)" and with that I am reminded of the western corporate worlds’ concept called "economics of arrangements" which is nothing but a hush hush arrangement of the night story revolving around which is to tell readers that when they are on busy trans - atlantic 'fixing a corporate job' work and meet a opposite s*x in some Chikmangalore hotel they go in for a quick back-up / download mode and when they touch respective home base they are all OK with that one night stand and no questions asked / no moral guilts attached / no religious sermons preached / no law broken (rent a DVD titled - Deception – 2008) so if this is what is the main question then I will say you just go ahead and no country is asking both of you of your marriage pictures to register in their honeymoon suit and no Greyhound or Euro Rail is asking for marriage certificate all these are phantom of the mind !

Reasoning based on point of worldwide Law:

In Saskatchewan, Canada, a married person may live-in with other married or single persons and become the spouses of all of them under the Saskatchewan Family Property Act. Consent of the "subsequent spouse" is not required. Although Canada has a federal criminal code law prohibiting polygamy, which includes anyone who authorizes more than one conjugal union at a time, Saskatchewan judicial authorities that unilaterally authorize multiple conjugal unions have not yet been charged under this federal law. before you wonder where the hell is Saskatchewan then I must tell you that Saskatchewan is a prairie province in Canada, which has an area of 588,276 square kms. Saskatchewan is bounded on the west by Alberta, on the north by the Northwest Territories, on the east by Manitoba, and on the south by the American states of Montana and North Dakota.

Some legal research on the author's question to choose which country to travel next as live-in partners from India and these does not answer where to register as there is no need of live-in registration anywhere around the world which many a ld. Lawyers failed to answer properly to help you:

1. Further in Canada, 16.0% of couples were living in a live-in relationship as late as 2001 (29.8.% in Quebec, and 11.7% in the other provinces).

2. While in Mexico, 18.7% of couples were living in live in relationship as late as 2005. Ley de sociedad de convivencia: the Spanish name for "Live-in Societies Law", legislation created on November 9, 2006, by the Legislation Assembly of Mexico City to establish legal rights and duties for all those cases where two people (due to either s*xual, familial or friendly reasons) are living together.

3. Live in the United States became common (here I am referring to Common Law readers not morality) in the late 20th century. As of 2005, 4.85 million unmarried couples were currently living together, and as of 2002, about half of all women aged 15 to 44 had lived unmarried with a partner. Seven states still have anti-cohabitation laws on the books, but they are almost never enforced and are now believed to be unconstitutional since the legal decision Lawrence v. Texas in 2003.

4. In Bangladesh live-in relationship after divorce is frequently punished by the "salishi system of informal courts" (its equivalent in India is referred to as Panchayat) , especially in rural areas.
Source: Women and Islam in Bangladesh By Taj ul-Islam Hashmi, page 112

5. The less said about India the better at this stage as Live in in India had been taboo since British rule. However, this is no longer true in big cities (such as Mumbai, Chennai, Delhi, Hyderabad, Kanpur, Vishakapatnam, Bangalore or in nutshell where ever there is a established BPO and Big retail Chains pervading and you have a PVR Cinemas - mind it, it is well researched which is though topic of another debate some other time), but is not so often found in rural areas with more conservative values. Live-in relationship in India is not illegal in India curtsey three Lordship Bench recent sermon on Kushboo's case, however it is considered to be a deviant behaviour and looked down upon. PS- If Prabhakar comments on me that I always look down "wife" so I will remove this para from my thought process but let it be there for the time being till Prabhakar twinkles me:-)

6. In Indonesia, an Islamic penal code proposed in 2005 would have made live in punishable by up to two years in prison.
Source: Indonesia plans new morality laws". BBC News. 06-02-2005
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/asia-pacific/4239177.stm  

7. In Japan, according to M. Iwasawa at the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research, less than 3% of females between 25-29 are currently living in live -in, but more than 1 in 5 have had some experience of an unmarried partnership, including cohabitation. A more recent Iwasawa study has shown that there has been a recent emergence of non-marital cohabitation. Couples born in the 1950s cohort showed an incidence of cohabitation of 11.8%, where the 1960s and 1970s cohorts showed cohabitation rates of 30%, and 53.9% respectively. The split between urban and rural residence for people who had cohabited is indicates 68.8% were urban and 31.2% were rural.
Source:  https://paa2006.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=61321

8. In the Philippines, around 2.4 million Filipinos were found to be living in live in relationship as of 2004. The 2000 census placed the percentage of live in couples at 19%. The majority of individuals are between the ages of 20-24. Poverty was often the main factor in decision to opt for live in.
Source:  GMA News.TV

9. In Bulgaria, live in is very common; 53.4% of all children born in 2009, were into families of unmarried couples.
Source: Based on the official statistics of the National Statistic institute of Bulgaria (Bulgarian)

10. In Denmark, Norway and Sweden, live in is very common; roughly 50% of all children are born into families of unmarried couples, whereas the same figure for several other Western European countries is roughly 10%. Many couples decide to marry later.

In late 2005, 21% of families in Finland consisted of living in live in couples (all age groups). Of couples with children, 18% were living in live in, Of ages 18 and above in 2003, 13.4% were live in. Generally, live in amongst Finns is most common for people under 30. What more all such legal obstacles for living in live in relationship were removed in 1926 in a reform of the Criminal Code, while the phenomenon was socially accepted much later on among non-Christian Finns.
Source: https://paa2006.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=61321

11. In the UK, 25% of children are now born to live in parents.

12. In France, 17.5% of couples were found to be living in live in relationship as of 1999.
Source: The Vanier Institute of the Family, Fall 2005

13. The living in live-in relationship rate in Israel is less than 3% of all couples, compared to 8%, as an national average, which is stark reality found in West European countries.
Source: https://www.sullivan-county.com/bush/7_states.htm

14. Cohabitation is illegal according to sharia law (for the countries that enforce it)
Source: See commentary on verses [Qur'an 23:1]: Vol. 3, notes 7-1, p. 241; 2000, Islamic Publications
 

15. In Australia, 22% of couples were living in live-in as of 2005.
Source: See Australian Bureau of Statistics.

16. In New Zealand, 18.3% of couples were living in live-in as of 2001.
Source: The Vanier Institute of the Family, Fall 2005

So what is the catch here ! I say a married couples "key exchange culture" as in underground farm house parties is Live-in in India now and jhats-of to Kushboo to ooze it to public domain and may be Madhur Bhandarkar and/or Mahesh Bhatt may make a social message film out of such maladies of our evolving great modern Indian Culture.

Disclaimer:- What has been expressed here is naturally a matter of concern that this take lends undue weight to certain ideas, incidents, controversies or matters relative to the author's main question subject as a whole. A moral / spiritual upright Lawyer (BTW is there one !) here in LCI and or a casual Lawyer reading these may help to create a more balanced presentation if you can and I disown my own take as moral responsibility in the condition of any libel arising out of it and or if any!

In true tradition of secondary research one needs to acknowledge. 

From Bacon's quote to the Live in relationship is a Hi-Tech Adultry!!! para the source of the above posting is selective comments on the article LEGAL floodgates opened for extra marital s*x ( https://www.daijiworld.com/chan/exclusive_arch.asp?ex_id=1257)

I am cutting and pasting those comments here( only the ones used in the above posting, for all comments visit the link) 

By above posting, I mean the posting previous to my reply. 

I'll register your live in arrangement. Hit Chandni Chowk, Paranthe Ki Gali, basement number 420.

Yes, "Gender Researcher" your observation is balancing on a fine thread of moral publishing dilemmas and or ethical publishing dilemmas a human being struggles constantly. I take it in right spirit as intended probably and since I can't be judge of my own self so I leave it to the larger public domain for a 'mirage' called 'satisfaction' which member of the Bar may call “wiping away tears from a litigant who approaches Bench thinking great Justice shall be done' but alas it is not meant to be so”. The author's "innocent question" revolved around that as the way I took it and each one of you may take the question as you may please.  

I somehow can't give ethical rights to un-verified WWW source.

Illustration:  The most common question I'm asked by such non-legal characters such as you who cross my path, or get engaging into talking to me over legal Q & A forums is how you can defend a author when you know she/he's guilty?. Well, the answer is, of course, that you don't. Once the author tells you that she/he did the deed, you've got to advise her/him to plead guilty, admit all and take the consequences. If she/he refuses to agree, then you must leave her/him to her/his own karma. "Further" if the author still insists then lastly show the 'larger picture' and finally leave her/him to her/his own karma.

The beauty of the author's question is such that it passed first the "filter test" of a public legal WWW forum, 'topping' of the author's concern were well addressed by various members of the Bar and when 'still kept engaged' by the author, the 'crust' was morally / ethically clarified by me with unverified contentious source publications what are moral dilemmas and/or what are ethical dilemmas quotes / unquote to ask self and seek answer from within not that unverified moral / ethical research is already 'published' in unverified WWW domain.

That is the clear role a 'professional' plays when dealing with such situations in public domains. However, what was your role till now as 'gender researcher' here to this thread question?


On a lighter note: When u develop the ability 2 listen 2 anything unconditionally without loosing your temper or self confidence it means you are in a live-in relationship J

Nice funny descripttion of tall characters “IDOLS OF FAMILY FORUM”.  LOL!!

In desperation only we generally get to know the actual importance of Lawyers and Doctors, or else criticize them. Even small suggestion at the time of desperation gives so much solace. Everybody complain about them and about their fees also after criticizing they think that their job is over. But no one become or suggests their children to be a lawyer or doctor and do free service for the society or for the sake of Nation.

Anyway, nice refreshment in between and Family section has lots of fun and comedy.