Conditions that account to dual employment

The HR personnel is landing you in difficulties that you will later struggle to clear.

There are many threads on similar queries.

Don't conceal anything in any job/visa/study aplication and mention this emplyment period.

Tender notice of resignation/final resignation under proper acknowledgment and keep copies/acknowledged copies/POD carefully.

The notice period of 2 months may not neccessarily and actually be applicable in your case, even if it is inserted in appointment letter.

While posting such queries employee should post basic information!

What is this establishment; Commercial, Industrial?

What is its nature of business say; IT, ITeS?

How many persons are employed in it?

What is your designation and nature of duties?

How many persons report to you?

Do you have any power to sanction leave/increment/appoint/terminate/appraise etc etc ?

You are in which state? Since how many months you are working? Are you under probation period or your service is confirmed in writing?

Do standing orders (model/certified) apply to establishment and your designation?

What is notice period as per appointment letter/offer letter and what was notice period tendered by you?

Was ever any stinker, memo, show cause notice on any misconduct issued to you?

Does the establishment have its appraisal system? Do you have copy of signed appraisal forms, matrix, KRA’s, performance date? How was your performance?

Are you a member of employee’s/trade unions?

Has the establishment issued/supplied, offer letter, appointment letter, salary slips of all months, PF number and a/c slips of all years, ESIC card, correct FnF statement, Form 16 as per correct FnF statement, acknowledgment and acceptance of notice of resignation/final resignation, acknowledgment of handover of charge, NOC/NDC……………?

What is this establishment; Commercial, Industrial? Commercial

What is its nature of business say; IT, ITeS? IT

How many persons are employed in it? About 700

What is your designation and nature of duties? Software engineer for web applications development

How many persons report to you? None

Do you have any power to sanction leave/increment/appoint/terminate/appraise etc etc ? No

You are in which state? Karnataka

Since how many months you are working? 2 months

Are you under probation period or your service is confirmed in writing?  Confirmed at the time of joining

 Do standing orders (model/certified) apply to establishment and your designation? Do not know

What is notice period as per appointment letter/offer letter and what was notice period tendered by you? 2 months in appointment letter and I served 15 days.

Was ever any stinker, memo, show cause notice on any misconduct issued to you? No

Does the establishment have its appraisal system? Yes

Do you have copy of signed appraisal forms, matrix, KRA’s, performance date? Never happened

How was your performance? Average

Are you a member of employee’s/trade unions? No

Has the establishment issued/supplied, offer letter, appointment letter, salary slips of all months, PF number and a/c slips of all years, ESIC card, correct FnF statement, Form 16 as per correct FnF statement, acknowledgment and acceptance of notice of resignation/final resignation, acknowledgment of handover of charge, NOC/NDC……………?

Offer letter, appointment letter, salary slips: yes

PF number, FnF statement, Form 16: No. Probably they will give it at end of 2 months notice, though I dont serve it

Acknowledgement of handover of charge: No one acknowledged to the handover done but it was definetely done

The notice period may not be applicable how? Because I have mentioned the date in my resignation letter?

Originally posted by : unknownname
	I need some help to understand what conditions account to dual employment. I resigned from a company A, where I had worked for 2 months, on 1st September, 2017. The notice period is of 2 months but at the time of my resignation I had informed them that I will not be attending office after 20th September, 2017. But the HR told me that they would give me relieving letter on 1st November dated 1st November, and till then I will be on loss of pay. I have a job offer from company B where I have to join on 21st September. Company B doesn't know about my employment with company A. So questions are 1. If I join company B on 21st September, will this account to dual employment? 2. If it doesn't and if I accept the relieving letter on 1st November, will it then be called dual employment? If yes, should I send back the letter to company A? 3. Do physical presence or taking salary for that day or both account for dual employment? Or being on two payrolls at the same time account for it, though I am on loss of pay at one place? 4. If it is not called dual employment and all is fine, in the future for a job should I show these overlapping dates? 5. If I want to do masters in USA, should I avoid showing this company in VISA applicaiton? Do they have some way in which they could find out that I am hiding my employment? Can they check my UAN or PF details and catch me? I have tried talking to managers and HRs but there is no chance of early relieving or buyout. My new employer needs me on 21st. Please advice me with this. Thanks

Would your next employer support you and absorb you on the strength of copy of notice of resignation/final resignation and also in case current employer contact next employer and issue adverse comments?

Your copies of  copy of notice of resignation/final resignation and its acknowledgment and POD can help you.

However you have concealed past employment hence you need the support of next employer to condone/excuse this concealment.

Saying, telling, asking, etc are all verbal transactions and not on record.

For employee’s (your) interest, employee should build irrefutable written record.

The stance of HR as posted by you implies that; ‘Your notice of resignation is not accepted, your period post 21st Sept, 2017 shall be on LOP (it may also mean that you marked as unauthorized absence or absenting/abstaining/absconding)  and such internal notes shall be bothersome in future.

Therefore you should certainly refuse to accept such relieving letter under proper acknowledgment and ask to issue correct one with correct dates i.e.; DOJ and LWD as per notice of resignation/final resignation tendered by you …….

Apply your skills; reasoning, persuasion, persistence, negotiations, and resolve the matter.

In case employee is separating (by resignation)  then employee shall choose the date of resignation.

The employer cannot preponse or postpone without explicit consent of employee.

Originally posted by : unknownname
	What is this establishment; Commercial, Industrial? Commercial What is its nature of business say; IT, ITeS? IT How many persons are employed in it? About 700 What is your designation and nature of duties? Software engineer for web applications development How many persons report to you? None Do you have any power to sanction leave/increment/appoint/terminate/appraise etc etc ? No You are in which state? Karnataka Since how many months you are working? 2 months Are you under probation period or your service is confirmed in writing?  Confirmed at the time of joining  Do standing orders (model/certified) apply to establishment and your designation? Do not know What is notice period as per appointment letter/offer letter and what was notice period tendered by you? 2 months in appointment letter and I served 15 days. Was ever any stinker, memo, show cause notice on any misconduct issued to you? No Does the establishment have its appraisal system? Yes Do you have copy of signed appraisal forms, matrix, KRA’s, performance date? Never happened How was your performance? Average Are you a member of employee’s/trade unions? No Has the establishment issued/supplied, offer letter, appointment letter, salary slips of all months, PF number and a/c slips of all years, ESIC card, correct FnF statement, Form 16 as per correct FnF statement, acknowledgment and acceptance of notice of resignation/final resignation, acknowledgment of handover of charge, NOC/NDC……………? Offer letter, appointment letter, salary slips: yes PF number, FnF statement, Form 16: No. Probably they will give it at end of 2 months notice, though I dont serve it Acknowledgement of handover of charge: No one acknowledged to the handover done but it was definetely done     The notice period may not be applicable how? Because I have mentioned the date in my resignation letter?

Your understanding from the posts is not correct.

GO thru:

THE KARNATAKA SHOPS AND COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENTS ACT, 1961; S;27,39

https://dpal.kar.nic.in/8%20of%201962%20(E).pdf

For service period less than 6months notice period for employer is NIL for termination.

The contract of employment should promote equitable discretions or this can be easily termed arbitrary.

If the longer notice period is not beneficial for employee, then employee can take a stand.

It has already been posted that;

“Don't conceal anything in any job/visa/study application and mention this employment period. (So avoid concealing this employment from next employer. Once you have correct relieving letter you can mention correct dates anywhere be it employment/VISA etc etc)

Tender notice of resignation/final resignation under proper acknowledgment and keep copies/acknowledged copies/POD carefully. ( So obtain copies/POD/acknowledgment)”  
 

Have you submitted Notice of resignation in some Software tool?

Or have submitted by email from official email id/personal email id/letter thru Redg. Post?

Do you have copies of notice of resignation and its POD and acknowledgment and acceptance?

If you have not obtained then obtain acknowledgment of handover of charge/assets, NOC/NDC and that nothing is pending towards you.

Tender final resignation under proper acknowledgment and mention that you have already submitted notice of resignation dated……………on dated……….with notice period of …………..days and LWD being dated……………….and have already handed over the charge/assets on dated………………to Mr/Ms……………..and NO tasks were pending at your end.

If you are to tender some exit form, obtain acknowledgment and keep a copy.

If concerned HR personnel leaves some internal notes/notings on you in your personnel file maintained in establishment and leaves the job the next person(s) shall refer to file only and may not agree.

It shall be lengthy in that case.

Don’t remain entangled with HR person only and of required escalate to good offices of appointing authority, MD, CEO and avail internal remedies…………….

If you are unable to resolve on your own; You can lean on ‘Grievance Redressal Committee’, higher officials of Dept. of Labor, IT/ITeS employees unions and trade unions that have embraced IT/ITeS employees unions, a very able LOCAL senior counsel of unshakable repute and integrity specializing in labor /service matters and having successful track record…………… 

On LWD while you submit final resignation mention in communication to supply salary slips of all months including last month , PF number and a/c slips of all years, ESIC card, correct FnF statement, Form 16 as per correct FnF statement, acknowledgment and acceptance of notice of resignation/final resignation, acknowledgment of handover of charge, NOC/NDC……………?

In FnF statement establsihment shall compute earned wages till LWD/bonus/leave encashment /OT/Incentives etc as per eligiblity per appointment letter or applicable enactments (check whichever offer superior benefits), adjust notice pay @ per appointment letter or applicable enactments (check whichever offer superior benefits for you e.g; Gross/basic/CTC) and final amounts payable...........and may ask you to accept......

It so happens that they have refused to respond to any of my emails. They have refused to do the exit formalities and they are saying that they will do it at the last working day according to the company, which is 1st Nov. When I talked to them, they have told me that they don't want to be unfair to other employees who would want to get relieved early after me. So they cannot relieve me early.

1. Can they treat me as absconding?

2. Is this called harassment and can I sue them for it?

3. In case they end up doing the same thing they are saying, so in the future for every other job that I apply to, would me showing my resignation letter printout along with their relieving letter be a good explaination?