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srk (Service)     20 January 2015

State employee not declaring dowry

As per law all government employee should declare the dowry article and dowry given or taken, my father in law is a retired employee in HMT, in the 498a case he, he wife and daughter gave statements that they have given dowry and article, though that is all false, can i use his statement against him, as he might be getting some pension. will there be any action taken against him if his senior officals are informed or can i file a case as its illegal not to declare that while in Job, please shed some light on this experts.

Regard

SRK



Learning

 10 Replies

Jayashree Hariharan (Advocate)     20 January 2015

he has declared it in 498a case, so it becomes an allegation and not a declaration. i guess you cannot go ahead on the basis of this.

srk (Service)     21 January 2015

Thanks a lot Mrs. Jayashree, i really appreciate you, do i have to wait until the trial where my father-in-law accepts that he have given me dowry, obviously the question will be asked during the trial, can i file a case atleast then?, or do i have to wait until the case is closed?.

i haven't taken any dowry, should they not provide all the financial transactions in the case to prove that they have given dowry. before even claiming that i have taken dowry. Investigation officer did not look for the financial trail, SHO, ACP, even magistrate and Judge, no body really cares to check if the case is even genuine or not. Is this the way our judicial system be?

this is just a general question.

Regards

Raj 

T. Kalaiselvan, Advocate (Advocate)     22 January 2015

Raj:  the judge or magistrate will not go deep into the case in the initial stage itself.  First the state has to prosecute the case, the accused has to defend himself challenging the allegations, then there will be arguments on both the sides.  After completing all these process, the court will decide the case on merits.  So wait patiently.

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     24 January 2015

No action can be taken against a retired Government Servant nor his pension stopped or reduced for any of his actions not directly connected with his official work. If he was guilty of a punishable offence, the competent court can award him punishment whether he was retired or not. Further HMT is a public sector undertaking and not a Government Department. Prohibition of a Government Servant taking or giving dowry is under the Government Servants Conduct Rules, which is not an Act of Parliament or of a State Legislature. Hence it does not have the same force as the force of the law of the land especially in criminal matters. Its application can be challenged in a court of law. When a person is young and has several years of service left he would not like to challenge his employer as it can affect his employment elsewhere too.

Sudhir Kumar, Advocate (Advocate)     26 January 2015

how do you prove that each item of dowry alleged to be given was given from his sources.  better read definition of dowry.  it includes every item given /demanded by any relative from any relative of either side.

 

you have not stated date of marraige and date of retirement so I cannot agree or disagree with Mr Ramani. 

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     26 January 2015

Just as it was in the case of Jayalalitha, if the gifts were found to be disproportionate to the f-in-L's known sources of income, he will be asked to justify. The burden of proof that the gifts were from others will be on the father-in-law. The conduct rules prohibits the giving and taking of dowry. But it does not prescribe the punishment. If he were in service he will be induced to voluntarily retire. If there are no proceedings in the court it will end at that. If there are proceedings in the court which results in punishment of imprisonment for him he will have to undergo punishment. Nothing will happen to him. If his lawyers advise him that he will be acquitted he can even refuse voluntary retirement. In case contrary to the advice, the judgment punishing him comes only after his retirement, again nothing will happen to his pension. Stopping or reducing punishment is extremely difficult. If he is punished his son-in-law also will be punished for taking dowry. As I stated earlier the Conduct Rules are very weak and they do not have the force of law of the land. Rule No.22 says that Government Servants should not drink alcohol. If that Rule had been applied all top Government servants would have been dismissed from service. Once a Government Servant retires the conduct rules do not apply to him, even if he had broken it while in service.

Shonee Kapoor (Legal Evangelist - TRIPAKSHA)     26 January 2015

Any govt./ PSU employee is bound by the service rules till he is in service and not after that.

 

Why do you want to run after such futile things; why not concentrate on the cases at hand. The case would be fought on various merits of the case and not on such trivalities that he has not declared dowry. 

 

One has to understand that 498a is not for exchange of dowry but for the harassment for dowry. Try to dislodge that

 

Regards,

 

Shonee Kapoor

www.sahodar.in

 

Sudhir Kumar, Advocate (Advocate)     27 January 2015

I am not able to agree to the following stands of Dr Ramani as not based on rules

 

The conduct rules prohibits the giving and taking of dowry. But it does not prescribe the punishment. If he were in service he will be induced to voluntarily retire.

 

The assertion is made without reading rule 11 of CCS(CC&A) Rules

 

As I stated earlier the Conduct Rules are very weak and they do not have the force of law of the land.

Please read the opening line of notification of rules

 

S.O. 4177- In exercise of the powers conferred by the proviso to article 309 and clause (5) of article 148 of the Constitution and after consultation with the Comptroller and Auditor General in relation to persons serving in the Indian Audit and Accounts Department, the President hereby makes the following rules, namely:-

THE CENTRAL CIVIL SERVICES (CONDUCT) RULES, 1964

 

Rule No.22 says that Government Servants should not drink alcohol.

No this rule does not put a blanket ban on drinking.  It only resctricts and reulatges.  Please read rule.

A Government servant shall -

(a) strictly abide by any law relating to intoxicating drinks or drugs in force in any area in which he may happen to be for the time being;

(b) not be under the influence of any intoxicating drink or drug during the course of his duty and shall also take due care that the performance of his duties at any time is not affected in any way by the influence of such drink or drug;

(bb) refrain from consuming any intoxicating drink or drug in a public place;

(c) not appear in a public place in a state of intoxication;

(d) not use any intoxicating drink or drug to excess.

EXPLANATION.- For the purpose of this rule 'public place' means any place or premises (including a conveyance) to which the public have, or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

srk (Service)     28 January 2015

Thanks a lot Kalaiselvan, Sudhir Kumar, Shonee Kapoor and Ramani. really appreciate you time.

@Sudhir kumar sir the date of marriage was 10 Apr 2010 and the retirement was in Jan 2014 i guess,

@Shonee  Kapoor sir the strange thing in my case is my ex wife has mentioned that me and my family have demanded dowry but never mentioned how much and no where is the charge sheet how much was the dowry demanded. I just want to check if there is a chance to prosecute my ex F-I-L, that builds pressure on him, if he were to lose pension.

@Kalaiselvan sir as i mentioned earlier just want to check if there is chance to prosecute F-I-L, its been more than 3 years a the case is not in trial, i dont want to visit India until the case is in a trial status. just dont want to give them the pleasure that they have trashed my life.

@Ramani mam, what i understood is that its too hard to prove and there is a slim chance to succeed, as Shonee sir has mentioned i will first my case of basis of merit.

if any family member of the Bride is a govt employee and still working is there still a chance for them?

you all have shared your view and knowledge, it is also helping a lot of other users in this forum to better understand how to proceed in their cases.

Thanks a lot once again

SRK

Dr. MPS RAMANI Ph.D.[Tech.] (Scientist/Engineer)     28 January 2015

@ Shri Sudhir Kumar 1. No punishment: Voluntary retirement is no punishment. Compulsory retirement is a punishment. He will only be induced to voluntarily retire. Inducement means if he does not take the inducement the Government cannot force him. 2. Rules have no force of law Everything is done by the Government in the name of the President. It does not mean that the President had even seen it. All orders are issued in the name of the President. Actually some top officer or a committee only would have drafted and cleared the Rules. Laws are Acts of Parliament or State Legislatures. Rules cannot have the force of Acts. 3. Drinking in a public place is an offence. A restaurant or bar has been defined as a public place. Top Government Officers do drink in restaurants and bars.

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