The women fights alone, without any help from their parents, society, system etc. and they faces financial constraints too. Since rebellion among women are not acceptable to not only our society but to their natal home also. Since their role is confined to producing child and to look after her matrimonial homes.

On the other hand groom side used to be resourceful, and they get support from everywhere, right from his family, friends to society. Even after divorcee they become eligible bachelors and seeks/expects unmarried and much younger girls with dowry.

 On the other hand divorcee women becomes second hand women to whom nobody wanted to marry and faces all sorts of problems right from her natal family, society to workplace.

Even aged single women faces lot of sarcastic comments from all quaters.

@ nyayapriya jee

i posted my above post at 1:03 AM dated 17th nov,asking you to produce evidences and proofs so that all blind supporters of women are convinced that these matrimonials laws favor women fully,exactly as written in papers.u posted at LCI at 10:33 AM on 17th nov,to participate in another thread(what's the defn. of standard of living)

thus,u ignored my challenge;rather participated in other thread.

so does it mean u have no proofs and evidences to support my challenges but have been talking blah blah blah just like that?

ok...no issues..

now people like arup jee also have no answer to my 13 points that i raised in my above post.so he beautifully diverted the topic  by saying "i have also been victim as my wife bribed legal people".

i am not asking about u and ur wife....

i am repeating for the nth time now that i am talking of all indian women who come to courts as victims of marital abuses and who mostly belong to poor and mid. class families...how can these women bribe others when they cant even afford lawyers' fees?

the %age of rich women is v.small who may/may not be bribing to turn case in their own favor

so i throw again my challenge to all those intellectuals who can prove all the above 13 points that i raised that these laws have successfully given v.speedy and rightful justice to all genuine women from all strata of society

and please dont keep diverting the topic away from these points that i raised,because the author had also raised these v.issues.so lets stick to issues which this thread is talking about,instead of talking about other issues

thanks in advance for your cooperation..

@ Roshni B


One thing is for sure; you are a smart person here and also a brilliant person and shrewd as  to fascade pan India issues into moot 13 points ambigious discussion whose answers even the best brains in Family law forum can’t give, simple reason being they are inter-mixed issues of facts as per facts of respective cases and have a far reaching socio-strata statistics collective points in hand and PIO’s of various States HC even shun answering round about similar questions as time upon time asked by various activists (Men’s rights NGO to be straight here so to speak) !

I am exclusively using above three words to describe your points (counters) to various authors post here to a dead elephant’s created thread.


Now let me tell you something as a person who knows civil family Law (for and against quite well till date); 

1. That since 2006 when DV act was passed, all women's DV cases have been disposed off in 2 months, which this law provides for

You are wrong to use words “dispose off” bze DV Act procedure itself says that the interim protection Order to be given in 60 days and yes out of 1000 cases 80% cases pan India have received Protection Order in 60 days.

2. That all women filing above case have been granted maintenance EXACTLY ACCORDING TO husband's income, not peanuts.

Now, this is mixed question of facts as evidences and quality of cross clubbed with competence of wife’s advocate are involved. It is not simple to say hey, I filed a maint. case in court and husband earns 1 L and I asked for 80 K and pops the int. maint. for 80 K. And no where in presumptive CIVIL Law it can happen. Hence granting of exact amount as prayed is totally out of question. Now, don;’t tell me your bald ipso-facto smart talks no matter I acknowledge you a smart and brilliant person (Period). 

3. That when woman goes to file 498A cases, the police are always v. eager to help , even if she has no money to bribe them or pay PPs


To tell you the facts 498a IPC is highly misused by all strata’s of wife’s simple reason being that Police and PP’s got money out of settlement and it got distorted to using words ‘bribe’ by wife to Police and Pps and it is wrong to use the very word ‘bribe’. What clearly I mean to say here is that out of the settlement money the wife has shared the booty with Police / Advocate as well as PPs as per various emerging facts of victim men’s reporting post settlement and the beaming smile on their ex wife. That is the very reason when you involve State and or Police into Family law there is bound to be misuse by the very protector and distortion of facts down the line pops up. I have a question to you, tell me how many 498a victim and accused you have personally counseled and or met till date? My last score happens to run into nearly 8 K + and growing!  

4. That poor women all over India are getting v. efficient and honest lawyers from legal aid centres.

This is why I call you a brilliant person ! Mind it poor women from rural India are hit by panchayat and traditional mind set so chances of them approaching for legal help is quite remote and distorting the fact into arm chair writing clubbing the question into the basket of lawyer’s lap as questioning them to be honest or dishonest does not even arise.  

5. That if woman has no proof of mental torture or no proof that in-laws and husband killed her for dowry, the judiciary manages to give her justice owing to high investigation techniques, in few months


This is the one of the reason I called you shrewed person ! Tell me are you aware of the criminal justice system stages and leaving aside dowry death for a second ? If you are aware of criminal justice system then acknowledge the fact that it is better to discharge a accused in lack of evidences than acquit him / her falsely (means on substance of quality of evidence) is golden rule of interpretation of criminal Justice family laws. World over there is nothing called ‘high criminal investigation technique in family law” by the way. High criminal investigation techniques are there only in forensic laws of evidences and India also has the same level of standard but shrewdly clubbing family law into forensic law is far fetched thought process.   

6.That  there are absolutely no adjournments in cases like 498A,DV Act,125 etc


What a brilliant question ! Two pronged answer is that treat Judicial Presiding Officer also as a human being before pouncing on men’s and onto their sides (means their pleaders) that due to them the adjournment culture erupted. Bottom line is that adjournments is a must in family laws cases to give time to parties to think in retrospect and try to settle the cases amicably. Now don’t preach me here golden rule on adjournment as per Salem Adv. Bar Association Vs. UOI SC binding Law of the Land which was overruled by Lordship Pasyajat and gave a lengthy preaching why adjournment is necessary in a case kar key (this is what lordships said and not me) !  

7. All genuine 498 a cases or dowry death cases have resulted in conviction and that they have been solved in less than 2 yrs when the woman chose to fight out.

Now you have raised a facade que. when knowingly you know that the wife is dead so how can she choose to fight it ! 

8. All judges in women courts are present. no leaves by judges whatsoever

See para 6 above as answer.

9. Keeps of wives' husbands are also punished alongwith the husband, if the wife chooses to sue her.

You are saying that Indian husbands are having ‘keeps’ so to round it off what about your and our father’s ! Bottom line never ask a que. or its evidences which falls back upon you. Well this is a general tricky que. and even you can’t bring assumption inferences on it leave aside quality of evidences on the floor if given a chance to adduce further. 
 

10. Our courts can trace runaway NRI husbands even if they run to different countries, in just few days/months

This question facts can’t be raised simple reason being that it takes minimum 10 days for a Order to reach MHA that also if dasti asked by the wife’s side. Now to activate the overseas Missions / High Commissions via protocols and then activate the specific Country’s Law and Order machinery India needs to be signatory to such bilateral protocols and conventions. India is none to many such protocols so advised to study the due process of RCN in one of my articles placed here in LCI some months back first and then discuss this out….. oh brilliant lady !It seems you have no idea on the due process of criminal due process of Courts looks so to me? 

11. All streedhan of all Indian daughter in-laws is returned to her fully. including jewels gifted by in laws...no problems at all once she approaches the judiciary...and this happens in few days of passing of order for returning it

Empty Johnny Walker consumed on reception evening is added to un-verified stridhan list and paid for in cash or supplement by Husband side is the simple factual answer after reading down over 12 K Stridhan List given to various SHO / submitted in various Courts by me ! Tell readers that as per binding Law of SC there should not be any conditions imposed upon AB or Bail from appellate Courts, but all Appellate Courts on average impose 25 K and much much larger amount (I have practically seen 6 L amount paid by dozen husbands in bail family law). Yes, she gets largely her stridhan back.   

12. If the husband is abroad and his salary cannot be found out by his wife, the judiciary has helped her fully in this regard also.

The lack of process flow by Advocates clubbed with follow up via Councils / High Commissions is to be blamed for it and moreover if wife knows the name of the overseas posted Company then each Country now-a-days have official living Index Data Sheets and minimum / maximum wages (hr) is clearly indexed into it and there is no need to go over lengthy process as challenged and all she has to do is simply submit the wage index chart over to the Court and this que. shows lack of your knowledge in family law evidence collection process hence a shrewd tactical move you stirred onto a dead elephant’s post !  

13. That when the boy's side try to bribe the innocent woman's lawyer, judge, police etc these morally upright legal people immediately expose them...so obviously no bias towards the victim and no adjournments because of any tricks played by boy’s side.

This is again a very shrewd way to put things over public platform. You may get hit maximum by s. 506 IPC if a smart person files a defamation suit against you so watch out by calling members of Bar as well as Law and Order subjects. Which also brings to the chapter that boy’s side does all these and wife’s side is like a Dove soap (read holy Cow in Court) said it in reference to pan – India questions you threw on the public debate platform ?

To close your arguments let me put it for records straight facts that in Rural India the wife’s are clubbed by age old traditions / customs as well as by respective Panchayat rule of the Land and in Urban India the wife’s are more progressive due to invasion of modern tools of legal rape laws clubbed with instigating members of Law and Order subjects and thus leave end of such biased discussion to variety of crossover rebuttals for and against over period of time by newer and newer members here.


But, let me say once again you are damn smart and brilliant person here who likes to use every tricky words in English language in  its most gullible interpretation ways sofaras Family Law in India is used for interpretation by prudent persons. But in all you succeeded partially by your 13 point agenda to some extent ! 


However, all the best and think broad not in narrow sense and be specific and you are bound to succeed in your evolving mature personality is my concluding views.   

@ ta jobs india

finally someone here came and answered my points.thanks!

still i am not convinced by your answers...as i said i need solid proofs ....

i will write again as i have no time right now...but just 2-3 small things

first,i never said that a man earning 1 lakh monthly shud be asked to give 80,000/- as maintenance.i believe in ethics;not in looting or extrorting money from men which many "sensible" people hv. thought abt. me

i just meant that as per DV act the wife must get rightful proportion of his salary as maintenace.as far as i know,it's supposed to be 1/3rd to 1/2 his salary..not peanuts.u diverted from this issue.so if u keep account of all genuine DV cases filed till now,tell me if all these cases filed since Oct. 2006 have been continuously getting rightful maintenances?

secondly i dont expect personal comments from you.when i said that laws shud punish those "other women" who willingly have affairs with married men so that wives who want to reconcile with partners have no more harassment from such women.but you diverted this issue by talking of my dad...now wot has it got to do with the point i raised?

so again....all those who want to reply please stick to my points only with solid prrofs and i promise to accept all your counters once you manage to produce genuine proofs.... PLEASE DONT DIVERT FROM THESE POINTS BY MAKING PERSONAL REMARKS ABOUT ONE'S FAMILY

@ Roshani B

First I take back so called 'personal comments" I asked you that because some day our own children may read your vague que. and may que. their own parent as today’s wife whom behalf you asked 143 que. is (may) bound to re-create one day so what you want to give to next generation a que. on ‘keeps’ culture wonderful !


Yes, you may not have time as you say but atleast don't put questions in public platform whose answers even you don't have.


Why I say so bze if you want I will chip in my money to you and now you send me your monograph for collection of 'solid proofs' pan India no matter how many days it takes but do you think so many vague que. in your 13 points list even you can get 'solid proofs' about? If YES, then publically accept my offer for research and if NO then you yourself have diverted the family law subject yourself sitting in some urban city!

The ERF’s 250-page report, entitled ‘Economic rights and entitlements of separated and divorced women’, states: “In India, in the absence of any laws for division of marital property, when a separation or divorce takes place the male spouse/ husband usually walks away with all the moveable and immovable assets of the household.”
This startling and stark revelation is part of the reason that women do not walk out of abusive marriages. Despite high levels of violence within marriage, wives tend to continue in the institution because it at least promises a modicum of survival, particularly if there are children. However, such survival takes place in situations of compromised dignity. Daily injustice becomes a routine affair, so much so that women become numb and carry on stoically, hoping things will improve one day. Ironically enough, most divorces or separations in India are at the behest of the husband. Not only does he have an upper hand within the marriage, he also has an upper hand when it comes to the dissolution of marriage.

Most of the property remains in the hands of the man or of his parental family. Interestingly, the study shows that while 23 per cent of women owned land during their marriage, only six per cent continued to own land after separation/divorce. Although the husband and his parental family had bought land only in 39 per cent of the cases, they managed to grab more land in another 30 per cent cases.

Of the women who owned vehicles before marriage (car, scooter/ motorcycle or bicycle), in 46 per cent cases she or her parents had bought the vehicle. Yet, a whopping majority of the vehicles — 77 per cent — remained with the male spouse after the break up.
From her years of experience with divorce and maintenance cases, Agnes analysed the roots that lie within a male-oriented family system. “In a marriage both are deemed to be partners. There is a tacit understanding that whatever the husband has is also the wife’s. But, in fact, whatever the husband has is his own and doesn’t automatically become hers. Most of India has patrilocal families and the woman remains an outsider while the man is the central figure,” she explains.

There are many blind spots in the law. For instance, the woman has to provide evidence regarding her (former) husband’s income. Ninety per cent of women interviewed said the onus of proving his income should not fall on them — rather this responsibility should be shouldered by the court. Lawyers and researchers concur that it is impractical to expect the woman to gather evidence regarding the income of her estranged husband. Even within marriage, a substantial percentage of women are kept in the dark about their husband’s income. Upon divorce or separation strenuous efforts are usually made to conceal income and wealth. In propertied families there is a great deal of activity around the time of a man’s divorce. Large swathes of his property and other assets are transferred to the names of his brothers or other parental family members. This effectively circumvents the possibility of reasonable division of assets with a just proportion going to the wife. Tax returns are routinely doctored in any case.
Goa’s Albertina Almeida, a practicing lawyer for nearly two decades, says that although Goan law seems to promise equality to women, with a common civil code granting equal rights in marital and parental property to them, these are nullified by one provision: Control of property is vested with males. “Gender-neutral laws are not sufficient in a patriarchal context. Laws must be gender-conscious, with a tilt to correct prevailing gender imbalances in families,” she says.

Law anywhere in India entails a long and bitter struggle, at the end of which the woman gains little or no property rights. Agnes reveals that “endless negotiations” are more common than up-front battles in court. “The man may be desperate for a quick divorce, because he has another woman, who might be pregnant already. In such a situation the wife has some bargaining power. If the husband is really wealthy, she may demand Rs 20 million, he may say he will give Rs 2,00,000; she may come down to Rs 10 million while he may go up to Rs 1 million. The lawyer’s job is to help the woman reach the best compromise.”

" 

problem is mixing matrimonial of laws with biased criminal laws.

DO MATRIMONIAL LAWS REALLY FAVOUR WOMEN?

I dont know as i dont have any personal experiences 

What i know is that one cannot get a true win in a court (only 1 or 5 percentage)

Sometimes if favor men ,sometimes it favor women but one cannot sure if he or she will get justice in a court.if someone have a justice in her or his own life then he or she will never come in a court.

Laws are ment for justice and men and women are ment for loving or fighting 

And laws is not a legal entity( its made by people) it is run by people thats why someone get justice or injustices

Either accept it or reject it..

Earlier i said,"The right man in the wrong place(and people) can make all the difference in the world."

But if there are many wrong places and people then what you do at that time ?

Only to accept it and try to find a way.

."let find a way"-this is easier said than done!!

@ arup

u sound like a very stubborn and narrow minded person with fixed ideas,which wont change even if the world turns upside down

i am not talking of "cunning" false 498A women here

i am asking if marital laws favour genuine women or not?i repeat....genuine and wronged women

if your answer is still yes,please submit your research based on which you say so

This was echoed by the Supreme Court in Sushil Kumar Sharma versus Union of India and Others. “The object of Section 498A is to prevent dowry menace. But...many instances have come to light where the complaints are not bonafide and...filed with oblique motive. It may become necessary for the legislature to find out ways how the makers of frivolous complaints or allegations can be appropriately dealt with.”

In 2003, the Justice Malimath Committee, submitted a report to the MHA on reforms in the Criminal Justice System, recommended that the Section be made bailable and compoundable to give a chance to the spouses to come together.         

Generally genuine  women dont want to file cases like dv or 498a and if she files their intention is for get justice ,to restore their dignity their matrimonial life and so on but on the other side is so powerful that no one is punished and the real victim dont get justice even after filing the cases .And after that she will get empty hands like  Khaali haath aaye the hum Khaali haath jaayenge.

And its simple if one can make pc useful other will misuse it like hacking ,cracking .The same thing applied to women if she file false cases .

And what are the controlling authority (courts) You cant expect it only some hope like 

Karm kar Fal ki Chinta mat kar

Please watch this;

Tareekh pe tareekh milti rahi hai lekin insaaf nahin milta. Milti hai to sirf tareekh. Kanoon ke dalalon ne tareekh ko ek hathiyar ki tarah istemaal kiya hai.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EwH444882c&feature=player_embedded

@ arup

arup,if your research(not just statements) are genuine and authentic, you must sue the above newspaper company for publishing misleading articles,so that saintly men like you are liberated(moksha)

such a case will also earn you good money

 @ kushan

This is a very very touching video!Thanks for posting it.Your words are also very good.

I wish all Indian lawyers were as passionate and as sincere,as is Sunny Deol in this movie!

Then they also benefit,besides the litigant.

The litigant recommends him to 100s of people all his life,till his last breath.When he wins a case or gets justice,all his friends,relatives,colleagues,family members,neighbours etc who knew that he was into litigation are always eager to know the outcome of his litigation.Obviously they also know the lawyer's name who is handling his case.Naturally when he gets justice with the efforts of his honest lawyer,all these aquaintances are informed that his lawyer was very good.That's why he won.And the instantly gains a lot of respect in the eyes of so many people

A committed lawyer's contribution in his client's life can NEVER be forgotten.He remains indebted to him all his life,while the lawyer who's gained so much popularity by now keeps getting more clients for himself.

Hatts off.... Aishwarya ji, shivani ji, Renuka ji & Mr Ashutosh. Lovely posts , very mature & good one.

Omg such a long conversation. I have read all the posts, and can say hatts off aishwarya, shivani , renuka, & Ashutosh. God bless you people, i loved your posts and i support you.

Iam a 36 yr old married lady got married 14 years back , a mother of two, i have daughters.

1) Iam working because iam the only one who takes care of my daughters , i pay their fess and fulfill their other needs, altough i have a husband and he is working but still he doesn't support me or help me. Why, because he wanted a male child and i gave birth to daughters, so he feels that he has no duty towards them , he is not aware with science . He thinks himself mugambo, ki jo bol diya wohi hona maangta.

2) I reach home by 8-30 or smtimes by 9 pm, but as soon as i reach home i rush to kitchen for cooking, and i wake up at 4_30aam every morning , cook for the whole family, lunch, tiffin for my kids, and husband , and my brother in law. Altough he has his own wife, but as she belongs to a very rich family and have given lot of dowry, on top that she has given birth to a male child so she is a darling daughter in law. So i have to take care of the whole family without any support. After cooking, i clean the whole house, i mean jhaadoo pocha etc , and then at 7-30am i leave for my office. I work like a donkey, at home & office but still my mother in law and family thinks iam not that good and still i can do much more. Actually its the greed jitna doge utna badhega.

3) Iam not allowed to utter a single word against my MIL, because then my husband starts abusing me, altough my MIL keeps my father in law as a dog. She abuses, shouts and if he dare to support me, my MIL attacks him like hell. My MIL & my husband keeps talking about joint family, whereas my MIL herself had deserted her MIL, & family and she had fought with everyone for a seperate accomodation etc, but now she wants a joint family, wow lovely vichaar. She has ruled her own family, and she wants to rule her son's family aswell. All MIL love to do that, wo khud ki shaadi shuda life bhi rule karti hai aur fir apne beto ki bhi karna chahti hai aur karti hai, for them daughter in laws

are such gangu bai's servants.

4) My inlaws never openly demanded dowry but gifts ke naam par mere parents ko kahi ka nai rakha hai, my dad had to break his bonds for my marriage, but still my inlaws are not happy, as they think that the elder daughter inlaw has brought much much more and thats true, look the greed. Whole day she keeps enjoying, with her friends, kitty party's and iam the donkey who works, and even my husband doesn't feel sorry for me. Agar ek din mai bimaar padh jau, then my MIL starts complaining ki drama hai sab she just wants to escape oing household work, no outings, no resturants nothing for me, because my MIL feels unke bete ka paisa kharch hoga, infact my husband doesn't give a single penny in my hand, all these years after marriage, my husband handover his salary to his mom, and agar mujhe kuch chahiye i have to go to ask that from my mother in law. so this is joint family concept.

5) Iam sorry this is too personal but its a fact, at night i become so tired that i feel like having a sound sleep, but my husband forces me to have s*x with him, that too like some p*rn star, and if i refuse him on some particular day, he starts abusing me, threatning me that he will go for extra marital affairs etc. So many men who think that men doesn't force wifes or rapes, please read this. They very much force wifes & even at times they rape. My second child was a resultof rape, and later my husband had abused and blamed me for that.

Iam suffering all these from last 14 years, but still living with him & his selfish family, because i cannot go anywhere, my parents are no more, i have responsibilty of my kids, and my salary is not that much . i feel like dying but iam helpless for my kids. I know very well my husband has

no feelings for me, but i don't have that much money to file a divorce case. My husband doesn't even buy me a plate of paani puri, and if he does he asks his mom first. And iam living this fake life for my kids . and i pray to god that please call me , but secure my daughters lives.

So i will conclude, ki jab ek aurat ghar ke saare kaam donkey ki tarah karti hai, bina ek word bole, saari galatiya bhi nazar andaaz kar de, bilkul deaf & dump ki tarah ,apni saari khushiyo ko bhool jaye apne maa baap ko bhi, tab wo wife bohot hi achi kehlaati hai aur aisi bechari aurto se hi joint families chalti hai. Par jaha apne hakk ke liye ek aurat apna mooh kholti hai bas wahi usse duniya bhar ki gaaliya dekar, homebreaker bolkar nikaal diya jaata hai. MEN NEVER MARRY TO GET A LOVING PARTNER , THEY MARRY TO GIFT THEIR MOMS A BONDED LABOUR, AND MEN GET A BONUS FOR FREE SEX, ANYTIME WITH NO EXPIRY, AND TOO WITH FREE GIFTS, THAT IS CHILDREN. i PITY SUCH LOSER MEN, AND PRAY THAT THEIR WIVES CAN FILE AS MANY CASES THEY CAN AND RUIN THEIR HUSBANDS LIVES, When you torture a person to that level, then its obvious that the person will come to bite you hard.

Till the time we keep licking our inlaws feets and work like donkeys, we are good daughter in laws else we are home breakers, witches. And the day we dare to say something about our fundamental rights that very day we are thrown out or abused like hell.

Traditions ke naam par , we females are treated like donkey's and tamed pets.

As if we are born to do seva and work like donkey for our pati parmeshwars and inlaws. we don't have nay other things to do.

By the way all these disgusting rules are made by males, because our society is very much male dominant and everything hasbeen done according to their comfort level. we get married and then go to our husband's house as bonded labours and free fun s*x entertainment. Thats the only picture men has in their minds. Some men like Ashutosh etc are far farmore mature, and sophisticated and iam sure the girl who will marry you will be a lucky lady.  And rest other egositic men will keep cribbing about females, because their wives have fled and filed cases. If you will provoke someone then its obvious, no woman wants to break her house , and takes it as a pride. No woman will like to get physically used and then leave the house and go, taking such a step means a lot. virginty is still a taboo, so why will a lady loose her virginty and then walk out from her marriage.  No girl does that, very few exceptions are their.