Rahul 22 October 2021

Confusion between : ancesteral vs self-aquired property?

Confusion between : ANCESTERAL versus SELF-AQUIRED property?

IRONY: I have seen different lawyer’s, giving different comparison/definition of ANCESTERAL property – - versus-- SELF-AQUIRED property !!!! (Because from my understanding, after the father dies without will, then even the ancestral property becomes self-acquired property of Class-I heirs, once the property division takes place ..right?)

BACKGROUND: Hindu Marriage in 2007, separated in end of 2008, 1 child born out of wedlock. Divorce going on since 2009.

HUSBAND: Rohit
HUSBANDS MOTHER: Rani’Ma
HUSBANDS FATHER: Ramesh’Da
HUSBANDS SIBLINGS: Raja & Rakesh.
HUSBANDS WIFE: Shila
HUSBANDS CHILD: Sudeep.

POINTS:-
•   Husbands father Ramesh’Da, died before marriage. He died in 2005.
•   Husbands father : Ramesh’Da got an ancesteral city plot- 1000 Sq.FT., from his father (Child Sudeeps Great-Grandfather), and after his death, that ancestral plot is now in Rani’Ma’s name. Rani’Ma, built a house on that city plot of 1000 Sq. Ft., by using her income/salary/savings/selling gold. Now Property card is in RaniMa’s (grandmothers) name.
•   And 3 brothers got 3 plots outside the city, that was purchased by their father Ramesh’Da. (Self-acquired property of Husbands father Ramesh'Da)
•   During divorce filing, Husband transferred his plot to his mother Rani’Ma’s name, by gift-deed.
•   Husbands Wife Shila works in IT industry, and has a luxury flat in Mumbai.
•   Husband handicap & unemployed.
•   Working wife’s maintenance claims were rejected. Husband pays only for child-support.

MY SELF-RESPECT tells me: I did not take 1 rupee dowry, and I will not give 1 rupee dowry, even if it is under the name of Alimony to a working wife.

QUESTIONS:-

(A) From my understanding, once the grandfather died, without will, then the ANCESTERAL property stays as ancestral, or it becomes SELF-ACQUIRED property of Class-1 heirs?

YOUR ANSWER: _______________________________________

(B) Can wife and child, file a partition suit, on this grandfathers ancesteral plot, on which husbands mother Rani’Ma build a house using her money? (NOTE: If great-grandfather & grand-father, both died before husbands marriage, and if this ancestral plot, becomes self-acquired property, then can wife & child put a claim on it?)

YOUR ANSWER: ____________________

(D) IMPORTANT NOTE: After 9 years of divorce filing, wife puts false allegations of DV, 498A, …etc etc..etc. For a lump-sum amount for child-support, she is willing for MCD, and ready to withdraw, maintenance case, DV, 498A, …etc etc..etc. …………………. But she wants to continue the property partition suite, filed for property rights of wife and child, under the name of “ancestral property”.

(E) All 3 brothers, including mother Rani’Ma, live in separate cities, far from each other, for last 18 years. But wife is claiming the property, first of all, as ANCESTERAL PROPERTY, and secondly under the claims of HUF – HINDU UNDIVIDED FAMILY. How valid is it? (None of us have ever lived under one roof, after each one of us got married…………..NEVER !!!)

YOUR ANSWER: ____________________

YOUR OPINION: Just because the harassment cases are all baseless, and used as pressure tactics, wife knows that such false claims, supposedly for fabricated incidences that she claims happened 10 to 12 years back, she knows it will eventually be denied by the court. So my lawyer says, that pay 1 time child support, and at least get rid of all the harassment & maintenance cases, and we will fight the property partition suite under merit!!! Is this advisable?

YOUR ANSWER: ____________________

If so, then what needs to be drafted in MCD? Because all the bargaining points from my side for MCD, like no more cases in future, even based on “change of circumstance” , should NOT be filed. As litigious wifes, after squandering away FREE MONEY, put more litigations, especially when MARRIAGE AMMENDMEND BILL- 2010, actually becomes a law.

YOUR ADVICE: Should I ask wife to remove all cases, including property partition case, for 1 time child alimony?

LAST QUESTION: If she is willing to scrap all the maintenance and harassment cases for a 1 time lumpsum amount for CHILD MAINTENANCE, but still wants to continue with property partition suite, then what to do? (NOTE : Wife knows, fabricated claims of harassment, are just waste of time, so she just wants to withdraw those cases, and willing to give MCD for lumpsum child support, but she still wants to continue property partition case !!! Is this advisable? But in this case, the final draft for MCD, will be weaker from my side, leaving loopholes for her to harass me further, in future !!!!)

Thank you all in advance, and sorry for making it so lengthy.

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6 Replies

Anusha Singh 22 October 2021

As per your query it is understood that you need information regarding the ancestral property.

1) After the death of your father who was the owner of the property if the ancestral property gets divided between all the legal heirs, then the property loses its title of ancestral property and gets converted into self-acquired property. Merely the death of the owner of the ancestral property does not affect the title of the property.

2) Wife has no share neither in ancestral nor in self-acquired property of the husband after divorce she can claim only maintenance from the husband.

3) NO, wife and child cannot claim the property which is in your parents name after divorce.

4) If she claims her maintenance and child support you have to pay that though the amount will differ if she’s educated and have a job then depending on her salary the Court will decide the amount of the maintenance and the child support.

5) YES, as all the harassment cases are false and the Court will eventually deny her prayer for the share in your property too. You can ask her to end all the cases against you and you can pay her maintenance or child support whatever will be the settlement between both the parties.

Hope it helps!

Regards,

Anusha Singh

G.L.N. Prasad (Retired employee.) 23 October 2021

You are one of the grandchildren of your intestate grandfather. Grandchildren are not class 1 legal heirs when the father and his brothers are living. Do not worry as your wife can not claim the property.

P. Venu (Advocate) 24 October 2021

Please post concise facts, confining to the essentials of the issue.

Rahul 25 October 2021

Dear All,

Thanks in advance. Here are consise facts in short: -

* My Grand-father : DEAD (before my marriage)

*My Father : DEAD (before my marriage)

PROBLEM: Grandfather had 1 plot, and Father had 3 plots.

DISTRIBUTION: Grand-fathers plot was given by gift-deed to my/husbands mother, rest 3 plots that were owned by father, were distributed amoung brothers, by GIFT_DEED.

FUNNY PART: Since marriage, all 3 brothers, as well as mother have been living in different cities.

IRONY: Wife + on behalf of child, has put claims on every-ones properties, as "ANCESTERAL", as well as "HUF- HINDU UNDIVIDED PROPERTY".

QUESTIONS: (1) As per my understanding, when father dies, and after property distribution, even the ancesteral property becomes : SELF-ACQUIRED PROPERTY..... right?

(2) When husband, husbands brothers, and husbands-mother, all are living in different cities, even before marriage, then how the property becomes : "HUF- HINDU UNDIVIDED PROPERTY" ?

(3) I think, wife is intentionally putting claims, on all the properties, as she is waiting for the MARRIAGE AMMENDMEND ACT- 2010, to become a law. But husband already transferred his property to his mother, so what claims wife can have?

(4) One of the plots, that was in mothers name, she sold it, so now wife has put : CONTEMPT OF COURT, but if wife has no claim, and there is no STAY -ORDER from the court, then how is this CONTEMPT OF COURT?

Thanks again. I really appreciate all the GREAT-SOULS like all of you learned people who help poor souls like us. Tons of blessings to those who help with an open heart.

Regards, Rohit.

P. Venu (Advocate) 27 October 2021

What is the Marriage Amendment Act, referred?

Rahul 27 October 2021

* CORRECTION: HUF - HINDU UNDIVIDED FAMILY

(Sorry, instead of FAMILY, I by mistake wrote PROPERTY)

Also Dear Respected Adv. Veny Sir,

MARRIAGE AMMENDMEND BILL/ACT- 2010 - Has been passed by Rajya'Sabha, but it is not yet cleared through Lok'Sabha, to finally become a Governing Law in India (Of course, after Presidents signature).

IRONY: There was new on Times of India, as well as many other well known news outlets, that lot of women who are contemplating divorce, are either postponing it, or those who are in the process of Divorce, are intentionally delaying it (............ TARIKH .... PE ........TARIKH ......as you know)

WHY? ...... Because as per MARRIAGE AMMENDMEND ACT- 2010, after it becomes a law, after divorce, wife can claim 50% of share from husbands property (residential), and furthermore, she can claim 50% of husbands half.

WHICH MEANS: From husbands property (residential/immovable), she actually gets 75%, and husband gets only 25%, from his own property.

Pardon my expression, but as BIG A BULL-SHIT, as it sounds, women/wives get one more weapon to harass husbands or husbands side.

MY OPINION: I thionk the current laws, just pushed the husband towards committing suicide, but Govt. wants to make sure, husbands family (mother + father + grand-parents), also join him in committing suicide. Ironically speaking, in a way its a good way of population control, by the Govt.

I hope I am not been too scarscatic. Sorry, if I sounded like one, but only one sided laws in India, are hurting the very core of the scanctity of Marriage, and has made "REVERSE - DOWRY", more accessible for women. More so, legal way of extortion.

With regards, Rohit.

P.S. in my case, wife earns almost 1 lack per month, and has a luxury flat in south Mumbai, worth almost 5.7 Crores. And the husband that is me, is UNEMPLOYED, because of being HANDICAP !!!