Flop Flop!!!
Flod thread!!!!
No hot discussion.....arguement!!!!!!!!
hypothetical questions
1.) Is husband the real guardian?
Is this legal query? Who follow our indian ved shastra ?
Very few.Indian culture are mixed with foreign culture.so,this question here according to today's situation is rubbish.Your query is spiritual than legal.Anway good thoughts that comes from our own indian heritage.
2.) Is husband duty bound to pay maintenance being a guardian?
now here everyone knows todays laws to maintain wife 125 crpc .. ,giving maintenance.no doubt.
3.) Is the right of maintenance of wife higher than that of the duty of the husband to maintain his wife?
this is a hypothetical question and no SC judge can answerthis.From the constitution prespective both are same but a women is weak .That you all know.Women need to be empowered and men need to be oriented about their obligations towards women. Women continue to be exploited. The position is same everywhere wherever developed, the developing or under developed. Women play major roles during various stages of their life as a daughter, wife, mother and sister, etc. In spite of her contribution to human beings, she still belongs to a backward class on account of various social, political, economic and psychological barriers and impediments. On one side, woman is worshipped as goddess and on the other side she is oppressed, suppressed, depressed, exploited and victimized by the male dominated society. A report of the United Nations say that “Women constitute half of the world population, perform nearly two thirds of work hours, receive one tenth of the world’s income and own less than one-hundredth per cent of the world’s property.” Women still suffer from discrimination, exploitation and victimization. The need of the hour is empowerment of women.Here your query ends.
Dear friend Kushan
No need to explain to this nonsense question.This is generated by some time pass men just to have a spicy free time.!
They are actually defeated men by wife who are using this forum just to exibit their frustration!!!
Please be sympathatic to these poor guys.Some ld person like Raj kr Makkad ji.
Thanks to his innocence.
Saurabh..V (Law Consultant) 12 September 2011
@Kushan
I humbly disagree with your view-point and stats! I strongly and reasonably feel that your stats are solely to misguide the readers and make an image that how poorly women live in this whole world. I believe the Advocate’s Act does not permit such misguiding comments on such forum. So let’s have respect to our culture, law and citizens of India.
Had my questions been hypothetical, (may god make your words true) Family Courts would have extinguished instantly. However, unfortunately, for both of us, these are questions of law and my dear friend if you disagree, then it does not dilute the importance of these questions. It would have been far better if you would have actually answered with your knowledge than to just impart your personal gyaan. In place of your personal gyaan if you would have argued on law point or may be about the shastr (which according to you are not followed), then it would have been better. F.Y.I. our Hindu Personal laws have been inferred from these shastr (which according to you are not followed). If we go by your words, interim maintenance would be extinguished from our statute.
Now coming to your stats about women and your red words:
In India, specifically Delhi the s*x ratio is somewhere around 920:1000 (girl:boy). I don't know how you say 50% of population but it’s ok. But does that give any logical answer to any of my question? I don’t think so. IF you did not wanted to answer then you should have refrained than misguiding the readers.
You talk about women working 2/3rd of work hours. I doubt what work hours you are talking about? Cooking or dusting our own home is extra? Then what about other out-of-home chores which husband performs? May be you feel that if girl do something extra for her own family then its ehsaan and if husband do something then it’s his duty whereas you do not give any importance to our shastr, I wonder how confused you are my dear friend!
Then you talk about their income. Cumulatively if you say that they constitute 1/10th of world’s income then certainly this is not the right stat at all. Let me see your document which you refer to for such comments. Above all, my view point is that even if they earn 1/10th then also they survive. I seriously wonder what your intentions were. You only wanted to thwart my bid to discuss this issue or you have such mind-set? Your post is nowhere near to give even a sensible reply to this. This is only a way to run away from the question. Neither did you said what our law says nor are you concerned about our shastr.
Then finally you talk about 1/100th of world’s property. How did you arrived at this stat? Don’t you know the law of succession in India? Don’t you know that being a wife, woman is eligible to succeed to her husband’s property and now after 2005 she is also equally entitled to her father’s property? It amounts to more than double the property which she enjoys as compared to the man. How confused you are my dear friend? Is this how you fight for the fundamental rights of your clients? Just run away from epicentre of discussion and then keep panting? I really feel sorry for your confused state of mind. Or may be you are just an anti-men campaigner who don’t like the truth to surface and keep enjoying and misty shadow.
@Princess
Please read my reply to @Kushan’s post, so you would understand what I want to convey to you. Additionally, I would like to tell you that asking something you don’t know and making a fool of yourself in front of 5 people is better than being a fool for life in front of everyone. If you do not have knowledge on law and specifically on this crucial aspect about maintenance, then this post would have educated you a lot. But if after reading all this you felt offended that how women are only given all special privileges as compared to men and you felt that this truth has come to the fore, then it does not mar the essence and important of this post.
@goodgirl Mumbai
What is hot discussion according to you? Which talks about rights of women and duties of husband? But I think according to you, a discussion which rips open the facts about duties of women & rights of men is not hot at all. You might be undergoing law education but you really lag that flair which a lawyer should have. No one is perfect in this world. Then why feel bad or shy if your knowledge is less on a subject? If you don’t know about law or say how it came into existence and from where it was inferred, then this is the right platform to ask.
I humbly request you to maintain dignity of this forum which has been fielding very knowledgeable members and try to give respect to them. Just because they speak against you doesn’t mean they are not right. Try to have an open mindset.
And F.Y.I. I’m single and very happy with my girlfriend. Though I know, your situation is very poor as without writing on any law point you have directly attacked on my personal life. I feel pity of you. May god help you!
My topic would open eyes of all the readers or say firstly you, who are blinded by fake stats like @Kushan and useless arguments by members like @goodgirl.
//peace
/Saurabh..V
Saurabh..V (Law Consultant) 12 September 2011
@Kushan
See my other replies to your answers:
Is this legal query? Who follow our indian ved shastra ?Very few.Indian culture are mixed with foreign culture.so,this question here according to today's situation is rubbish.Your query is spiritual than legal.Anway good thoughts that comes from our own indian heritage.
If you feel it's a spiritual query than legal, I seriously doubt how you interpret the laws. Suppose you are an SC judge from the Constitutional Bench and if there is a question before you like this, how would you respond? Like you responded above? My goodness. May god help India !
According to you this question is rubbish as per today's situation. What situation you are talking about sir? Man giving maintenance without any grounds under interim maintenance laws? Or is it the false case scenario against whole family of innocent men?
now here everyone knows todays laws to maintain wife 125 crpc .. ,giving maintenance.no doubt.
Do you think that if a wife who leaves behind her matrimonial home without a reasonable cause is also entitled to maintenance? If you baldly talk about S.125CrPC, then may be you should refer to its sub-section (4) and should read it throughly before you say "no doubt". If such easy was the answer, I wouldn't have asked it here.
this is a hypothetical question and no SC judge can answerthis.From the constitution prespective both are same but a women is weak .
Where does the Constitution says women are weak? Which Article do you refer to, to arrive on such conclusion? And if you are openly challenging the knowledge and strengths of a SC Judge, then may be you should revist your thoughts and give clarification on this comment.. Did you meant to say that highest court in this country is not competent enough to answer basic query from Family Law?
Can you differentiate between "rights" & "duties". If according to you both exists simultaneously, then you are wrong my dear friend. Allow me to put forth my argument that they exists in isolation and they are actually not at all inter-dependent. there could exist a right to which there is no counterpart duty and vice-versa.
Let me show you my Article post on "Maintenance"...
//peace
/Saurabh..V
Saurabh..V (Law Consultant) 12 September 2011
Below is the article which I contributed in my early days with LCI. May be this would help you understand my view on aspect of maintenance and duties and rights..
https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/articles/MAINTENANCE-A-Myth-Unveiled-3367.asp
//peace
/Saurabh..V
Tajobsindia (Senior Partner ) 12 September 2011
@ Suarabh / Ld. Makkad,
A legal “guardian" is someone appointed by the Court. tell me which Court has appointed a husband as guardian of his able bodied wife as per any of their Judgment till date interpreting shastras / vedas basing codified Hindu maint. Laws? All they have talked of are about ‘duties / responsibilities’ of a husband in relation to maint. and many few Orders have actually talked of “responsibilities / duties” of a wife which is not subject matter of debate here if I understand well your three issues put before us for debate / understanding of fundamental question.
It is other fact that if the wife becomes physically or mentally incapacitated, then the husband becomes her legal “guardian” in its explicit legal applicability. This much is clear applicability of “guardian and guardianship” words to the cause of action I understand.
If that be so as per codified Law / Statutes and I now take @ ld. Makkad's first line interpretation here for discussion, then a Hindu wife as per shastras is stated by our age old philosophers to be "guardian" of her “husband's home" legally interpreted as she to be responsible for her husbands home and off springs is it not so talked about in our scripttures ?
Yes it is ........
Now let us draw parallel to what @ ld. Saurabh says here in his first que. before us and if we accept his as well as @ Ld. Makkad’s arguments that husband is “guardian” of his wife who lives in his "home" then that "home has a guardian" too as per shastras / Vedas, that is a wife is guardian of her husbands home and his offsprings so side kick que. arises, what for maint. to wife by her guardian (i.e. husband) to be provided if that guardian (here it is a wife) herself is not interested in "best interest and welfare of that home"? I am aware it is a elasticized inference I am drawing………..Now tell us is it not a legal meaning that a “guardian” looks into best interest and welfare of a ward (here ward is inferenced to be the home) and whereas a home is built by a husband and not by wife given to see patriarchal social prevailing fabric of India where women complain of alienation first from there father’s property and then from their husband property even if HSA Amendment 2005 is standing in front of us so where comes a question of a codified law interpretation asking husband to be guardian of his able bodied wife coming into picture in all these ??????
So as per us starting this argument that husband is guardian of a wife is bald argument and just to push USA (some of their states) local laws (agenda) into present codified Laws of India renewing one way interpretation of our Vedas / sashtras.
re.: I am aware that in some States in
@ Ld. Makkad, Pundit ji says so many other things also to both husband and wife why not mention them here to draw parallel or refer to an older post about sat pheras posted way back......... I wonder in Kerala where matriarchy is pre-dominant even today what does a punditji there says to both couples ad what could be your views on this? J
Well now-a-days this que. of husband to be guardian of his wife has lost its relevance for a simple fact it creates ‘s*xist’ vis-à-vis ‘vulnerability’ endless debates among two sections of panel. Today in Indian society where codified Laws supposedly to be followed in spirit both husband and wife are on equal footings. Well all feminist arguments calls for such cause of actions is it not what we hear daily in our practice ! Had it not been so “empowering women” in what ever @ Roshni’s titillating NEWS headlines we read every day here would not have been kicking news of the day and recently so many Indian “wives” have broken the shackles of last male dominated INDIAN ARMY by seeking forward base permanent Commissions (postings) bastion….. so if we agree to your first que. then did her “guardian” gave his “consent” to join most “vulnerable” jobs shedding his “responsibilities” even if per se shastras / Vedas are to be brought in this argument ? Now in such situation does not Indian Army becomes her “guardian” C’mon why we taking 21st. century India to vedic period in the name of reverse empowering wives with such line of arguments they themselves will not like to go back to for a simple fact once they accept Vedas / Shastra then they have to unwillingly perform DUTIES as per mention in these scripttures is it not so …………..
Another shackles wives broke was - whose name (Guardian) in school forms / Passports to be put as legal clearance que.? Now-a-days a mothers name can also be written as guardian in schools / passport documents. Now what happened to status of a child’s father who as per S. 6 HAMA is stated to legal guardian and further what does the shastras / Vedas and pundit ji says to all these! Well these are altogether different debates I know but just brining them on board when word “guardian” is debated.
Does today’s wife follows shastras / Vedas or our age old scripttures? If yes then I will buy this old argument that a Indian husband is guardian to his wife…….What I buy is simple sentence that a husband is responsible for his wife based on cause of action (period) but after her father i.e. the moment he brings a wife “home” his responsibilities starts further i.e. as “protector and provider” but not as her guardian. See older post on protector and provider syndrome here in database of LCI.
Also I wonder what you two ld. friends here will say down the line when same s*x marriage gets legalized in
Tell general public in above live social illustration before us who will be the guardian and how will that be decided suppose god forbid sometime from now one of these two same s*x couple gets separated ???? J
Also note if I protect someone that does not mean I become that persons ‘guardian” of that someone and here that someone for illustration sake say is my srimtiji not some lass of the streets. Now explicitly saying it for clarity, if I protect my adult (major) wife at home and streets that does not mean I am her guardian! For god sake…….. donot put feminist words in my mouth, she will fizz and fume till eternity towards me the moment I say so but then that is all about “guardian and guardianship” funda ……
You see Law does not work in vacuum ….whole totality of mixed facts and question of Law is given interpretation thereto. Persuasive facts here are Vedas and customary traditions in different parts of traditional India and question of Law is does any where in any Codified Law of the land which is applicable across length and breadth of India except some parts of J & K is it defined that husband is guardian of able bodied wife?
The answer is NO.
So what is not legislative intent that cannot be interpreted by a ld. Judge be it under class legislation as same has to pass through strict test of Legislative intent should have been there to interpret a proviso. It is like opening Pandora’s box debate; if you want me to do so I may interpret class legislation and its test on your raised para 1 issue before us. However I may be willing to do so provide same wavelength comes on board. UOI lost its case on class legislation way back in 2006 as it is barred under Art. 14 COI…..now feminists here will fume and fuzz the moment I say (remind them) of a lost case ………..
@ ld. Saurabh Your first que. is good to the point that Indian society is male dominated that’s it (period) further if we read down all your messages you have a dominance / voicing posts as husband should not pay maint. to able bodied wife as both are equal and equality is cause of day is what your messages gets interpreted to be as and if same is applied here to your above very first que. then you are now taking refuse / leaning to shastras / Vedas and creating a bias in your own vehement past posts. Well I am not commenting to any of your messages but for debates as you above were my counter points.
@ ld. Saurabh what you are possibly pushing here by this thread is a dangerous line of thought i.e. your simple interpretation that for a un-married daughter the guardian is her father “before marriage”. Yes father is guardian to a un-married daughter before marriage which I don’t deny. Now it is obvious that un-married daughter will be married off one day or another so distortion now start happening starting here that is “after marriage” and India is pre-dominantly patriarchal barring few regions here and there so in such adverse social dictum “after marriage” the husband automatically becomes her guardian which in my above large piece of interpretation is not at al so.
These were my warming up views and your rest of the two que. we will interpret in due time and put our views for debates in due time….….
However let us hear more interpretation on que. 1 ……. and let us welcome our ld. friend Dr. Ramani on this interesting board discussion too…..…
Saurabh..V (Law Consultant) 12 September 2011
@Tajobs
May be I've not been able to put forth my words and that it how you are not able to comprehend.
Give me little more time to give clarity on my first question and then the answer to this question.
//peace
/Saurabh..V
Tajobsindia (Senior Partner ) 12 September 2011
Okies take your own vedic time (it is a PJ I suppose you may allow me to make on both of us) :-)
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