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piyush   21 May 2017

Hostile witness to registered will

My late mother left a registered will leaving her share of property to me among other things and some property to my brother. The two witnesses have both turned hostile and refuse to testify and one was cropss examined and said it was not signed in her presence. I feel the sb registrar has followed his procedure and the witness is lying.

What options do I have to prove the will? call teh sub registrar as a witness? forensic examination of teh signatures ion the will? What can I do?

my brother is using this to claim my share of the property. 



 17 Replies

Aks   22 May 2017

You are having a bump in the road to probate. Try to understand why the witnessses have become hostile ? Is it money? Your brother;s influence ? or something else.

In today's world ,technology can help. Their signatures can be verified by comparison of their regular handwriting and signatures on other documents..by a hand writing expert.  The age of the paper and age of ink can be determined to close extent by experts.

But all this takes time and money and I don't know if Indian judges even allow such evidence.  Ask a lawyer. Try to collect as much circumstantial evidence as possible. People who knew about will, other relevant facts about Wil etc.

If the will is registered..you are in a stronger place.

Ms.Usha Kapoor (CEO)     22 May 2017

tJHROUGH HANDWRITING EXPERTS EVIDENCE AND CROSS EXAMINATION OF WITNESSES ETC TRUTH WOULD BE ESTABLISHED WHETHER INDEED THE WILL IS GENUINE AND LEGATEES ARE CREATED UNDER THE REGISTERED WILL.

piyush   22 May 2017

brother has influenced teh witness. The matter is in MP where probate is not required

MPS RAMANI (Scientist/Engineer)     25 May 2017

Where have the witnesses turned hostile, before a court of law? From your writing it appears that you have not gone to court and they are not denying in front of a judge or a magistrate?  A probate is not required in MP. It is OK if all concerned accept the will. Sometimes even all concerned accepting the will  will not be sufficient. For instance if you want to sell the property now or later, the buyer is not going to search for the witnesses to satisfy himself that the wiil is genuine. Probate or no probate if you want to enforce a will you have to approach a court of law. Approaching a court of law amounts to applying for a probate. You approach the court with the will and pray to the court to order that you are now the rightful owner. According to you the witnesses are not denying that it was their signaures. They are only denying that the testator signed in their presence. Hence forensic examination of the signatures is not necessary. Also standing in the witness box they may not dare to tell a lie. They will be cross-examined by your lawyer.

MPS RAMANI (Scientist/Engineer)     25 May 2017

As the will has been registered the registrar also is witness. Did witnesses sign before the registrar?

piyush   25 May 2017

The witness said before teh court during cross examination that she was called in by teh registrar to sign as a witness. AT that time my mother had already signed. Maybe that was the procedure. Both went to the registrar's office together and came back together in the same car.

MPS RAMANI (Scientist/Engineer)     26 May 2017

Why did you go to court? What did your lawyer tell the court after the cross examination? Your mother and the witness went together to the Registrar's office. Your mother signed before the registrar. The witness signed before the registrar. Both were done at the same time. If the witness did not see your mother signing, what for she was thinking that she was signing? The testator and the witnesses appeared before the Registrar at the same time and signed on the document one after the other right before the registrar. Is this not sufficient for the court? If the court has given an adverse verdict go on appeal.

MPS RAMANI (Scientist/Engineer)     26 May 2017

How long back was the registration done? Will it be possible to get the registrar or other staff in the registrar's office who were present at the time of registration. If so first you personally meet them and talk to them before calling them as witness. Remember they are less of  witnesses than the witnesses who have signed on the documents. They can easily try to escape saying so many people come people and how they can remember a particular case. The opposite side lawyer will also cross examine them and ask them how they are remembering. As the witnesses have not said that they did not sign the document, forensic examination of the signatures or handwriting is irrelevant here. Do not get diverted.  Many times wills are not registered. In your case the will has been registered. That itself is solid evidence. It would be atrocious if the will was not accepted. 

piyush   26 May 2017

will was registered in 2008

piyush   26 May 2017

The other party went to court to disprove the will and by getting the witness to say she did not see my momn sign the will , the will has been effectively disproved as per my lawyer.

MPS RAMANI (Scientist/Engineer)     26 May 2017

Go to the Registrar's office. There will be some employees who were there in 2008 and are still continuing. The document(will) may be giving the name of the then sub-registrar. He may still be there or he may have been transferred. Try to contact him. There may be other employees who were there in 2008 and who could be witness. Though this may be a genuine case, still witnesses may have to be tutored.

Your lawyer should do home work.

MPS RAMANI (Scientist/Engineer)     26 May 2017

Your lawyer is not a good lawyer. Change your lawyer. You find out how you can bring a criminal case for perjury against the witness. Put fear of prosecution in the mind of the witness, The will would be saying "signed in the presence of (witness)." The registrar by putting his seal has confirmed that the witness was present when the testator signed. It is not necessary to find out in which direction she has turned her head when the testator was signing... Does it say signed with the witness looking at it. Has the court given the final verdict? If so change the lawyer and go on appeal. The only way the witness could have negated is by saying that she did not sign, she was not present or that it was not her signature. Your lawyer is confused. Otherwise why should he talk about forensic examination of the signature?

Kumar Doab (FIN)     31 December 2018

Any WILL can be contested. Registered WILL is not easily set aside atleast on counts of authenticity.

The registering authority can be called in court.

If the will is duly registered in the life time of the will-maker, then legally death and/or hostility of witness (es) may not be an issue.

Your own very able LOCAL counsel is to help and guide you.

Kumar Doab (FIN)     31 December 2018

 

You may take help for any matter from, elders of your family, competent and experienced well wishers, seasoned PIP’s, helpgroups, community leaders, NGO’s, experienced colleagues, associations, religious scholars/leaders, influential persons, Employee’s/Trade union leaders, help groups for spouses (Husband/wife)  etc and  find a very able LOCAL counsel specializing in concerned filed of law e.g; Testamentary Succession  matters as in your case, and well versed with LOCAL applicable rules, precedence, latest judgments etc …. and worth his/her salt, can advise you after examining all case related docs, inputs,  evidences on record.

Obtain proper legal opinion in writing!

Avoid acting on your own on hearsay.

One should not fall for IT’s and entities loitering at online portals to allure unsuspecting querists. There are many threads on such instances at LCI also.

Online discussions are not substitute to in person discussions with a very able counsel of unshakable repute and integrity specializing in concerned field of law.

One should not fall for IT’s and entities loitering at online portals to allure unsuspecting querists……the personal details of unsuspecting querists/citizens get stored in databanks/compromised……hacked.

Not only your counsel ( if other very able counsel opine that 1st counsel’s advise was bad, misleading) many posing as Lawyers (actually Liar) have been raking up disputes at online portals including LCI on subjects like ; WILL, Nomination, Gratuity etc etc with their misleading, illegal advices and conduct..and have failed due to untiring efforts by some sincere and good natured Experts that indeed want to help and contribute at such portals. Such entities operate by forming gangs ( ikdi, dukdi, tikdi, chokdi and even more)….and attempt to deflect, divert to other members of their gangs to fleece the unsuspecting querists. Many of such entities have never been to courts and might have never won in any case and may not be able to count even on their fingertips. In the end multiple fake ID’s of such IT’s and entities get permanently blacklisted, shunted out at online portals and outside online portals and even society………and that is exactly what they deserve. Make a note of such entities and if the need be act to confine them to correctional centers; Jail, and let their cost and consequences be, heritable. Why such IT’s and entities litter nuisance at online portals: to hide their own weaknesses, and to satiate their insatiable itch and due to their infectious greed. One should stay away from such infected entities and hence away from such infection. You may post if anyone has ever asked /is asking for money from you have paid.

 Such IT’s and entities keep on poping up at online portals with fake and new ID’s after  their old ID’s are permanently blacklisted/shunted out and money fleeced from unsuspecting is finished.

There are such very able counsels at each location.

Check for such counsels at LOCAL; Civil Courts, HC, SC,..

You can also try for FREE legal Aid from Legal aid center (DLSA) that is usually within LOCAL courts complex..preferably from a very able counsel specializing in Testamentary Succession 

 

 

Your counsels can advise after examining all docs/record/inputs pertaining to your matter and help you. You can also search threads on similar query in SEARCH option ON left Hand side of threads in Forum/Experts section. Having learnt a lesson, remember to consult beforehand for your matters or any matter about which you are not properly informed.

There have many instances of such entities operating with multiple fake Id’s at online portals.

 

 

The FEE of all LOCAL counsels at all LOCATIONS is not high/unreasonable as mis-believed by many.

Many counsels even at State Capital/Metro towns  do not demand unreasonable high FEE.

IT is rather at online portals that unsuspecting querists are mislead as per many publications, by IT’s and Entities that pose as some Lawyer (actually LIAR) and flaunt/advertise firms that are not Law Firms (Actually LIAR’s Firms) to believe that LOCAL counsels are not knowledgeable..are incompetent.

In Reality the LOCAL counsels win cases in LOCAL courts at all LOCATIONS.

You can go thru/search the cases contested by any Lawyer at court website.

Rest; Your own very able LOCAL counsel as already advised above, can advise you in person, after examining all docs, inputs in person.

Obtain proper legal opinion in writing.


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