Want to get information of reservation?


Can I get the information from railways for November 2011 for a particular train?

I want to get reservation Chart for x train on  dd November 2011.

 
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Scientist/Engineer

The details would be available from the Reservation Centre for the particular train. I could see nothing in Sec:8 of RTI Act, which prohibits the disclosure of such information.

 
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practising Advocate

Apply for the information under RTI Act to The Cetral public Information Officer of the concerned Railway . You will get the information  called for.

 
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@Devendra,

A very good question based on RTI. I am going to give my views via these two cases. Please have a careful study of these two attached documents's content.

Believe me,these two cases are sure-fire answer to a number of questions,directly or indirectly,inter-related.

Regards,

Best wishes.



Attached File : 362530282 cic ad a 2012 002184 m 95263.pdf, 362530282 cic ad a 2012 900188 m 78862.pdf downloaded 142 times

Total likes : 1 times

 
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Dear Sir, Sir, I live in UP and belong to General Category but my wife born in up and belong to OBC cast. I want to know, may she continue ...



Read more: http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/54472-can-my-wife-continue-her-reservation-up-after-marriage-me-general-category.html#ixzz2F7Ra2poJ 
The Complete Right to Information Community Portal of India 
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@anurag,

I suggest you to start a new thread so as to not to intertwine with another thread,therby avoiding the cofunsion, which might have taken place if not taken care of, among readers and repliers alike.

Hope an action on your part first..

We will follow..

Thanks

Regards

 
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Scientist/Engineer

In the case 362530282_cic_ad_a_2012_002184_m_95263.pdf, before the Central Information Commission, the Railways have asked as cost Rs.3000/- at the rate of Rs.1000/- per page for 3 pages.  The charges, which certainly are exhorbitant, was claimed to be in accordance with the order of Railway Board. Whether by Railway board or any other authority the charges cannot be arbitrarily fixed. The following Sections from RTI Act, 2005 are relevant:
 

7. (3) Where a decision is taken to provide the information on payment of any further fee representing the cost of providing the information, the Central Public Information Officer or the State public Information Officer, as the case may be, shall send an intimation to the person making the request, giving –

 

(a)    the details of further fees representing the cost of providing the information as determined by him, together with the calculations made to arrive at the amount in accordance with fee prescribed under sub-section (1), requesting him to deposit that fees, and the period intervening between the dispatch of the said information and payment of fees shall be excluded for the purpose of calculating the period of 30 days referred to in that sub-section.

(b)   Information concerning his or her right with respect to review the decision as to the amount of fees charged or form of access provided, including particulars of the appellate authority, time limit, process and any other forms.

(5) Where access to information is to be provided in the printed or in any electronic format, the applicant shall, subject to the provisions of sub-section (6), pay such fee as may be prescribed:

 

Provided that the fee prescribed under sub-section (1) of section (6) and subsections (1) and (5) of section (7) shall be reasonable and -------------

 

(6) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (5), the person making request for the information shall be provided the information free of charge where a public authority fails to comply with the time limits specified in sub-section (1)

 

As stated in the Act, did the Railways advise the seeker of information, how the cost of Rs.1000/- per page was arrived at?

 

Further the Act also says that the charges should be reasonable.

How did the Railway Board or any other authority compute the figure of Rs.1000/- per page?

Even more surprising is how did the Central Information Commission justified the reply of Railways?

I advise Mr. Devendra to contest if the Railways give a similar reply as in the above case.

And come back here, if the Railways say the information is time barred. I shall advise how to proceed further, in such an event.

 
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Scientist/Engineer

Further in the case cited tha applicant sent his revised application on 11-02-2012. He did not receive any reply within 30 days and he appealed to the higher authority. As he was not given the information within 30 days, he should have been given the information free of cost.

 
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@Mps Ramani,

It's a very good thing that despite of being a scientist, you have words of law in your vocals.But at the same time, your response to the case,so attached previously,is a bit quick in my opinion. Probably,you should have dig the matter up,make some search on your part, a quotient highly desirable with such qualification.

Anyway,let me try to clear your doubt going along with your text,reproduced in the original form for the sake of convenience and readability.

 

1.As stated in the Act, did the Railways advise the seeker of information, how the cost of Rs.1000/- per page was arrived at?

 

Further the Act also says that the charges should be reasonable.

How did the Railway Board or any other authority compute the figure of Rs.1000/- per page?

Even more surprising is how did the Central Information Commission justified the reply of Railways?

Reply- Please study the content of the attached file(below).I am sure,everything will fall in place.

2.And come back here, if the Railways say the information is time barred. I shall advise how to proceed further, in such an event.

Reply- I think you have missed the content of section (4) of RTI act 2005.Let me reproduce some part of the same.

4. Obligations of public authorities. —(/) Every public authority shall—
(a)
maintain all its records duly catalogued and indexed in a manner and the form which facilitates the right to information under this Act and ensure that all records that are appropriate to be computerised are, within a reasonable time and subject to availability of resources, computerised and connected through a network all over the country on different systems so that access to such records is facilitated;

My Inference of the Obligation within the meaning of above text- Railway is not obliged to keep the data for unlimited time,it has fixed the time limit i.e. for six month back from the current date.

© Availability of resources(See the red text) - Resources available for which reasonable effort being made towards making it available,being the subject of availability,is said to become available,within the meaning of availability of resources.

Reasoning behind this time bound

It would not be difficult for you to understand that for such a large organization, the cost of keeping information is very huge and also there is a limitation in terms of resources needed to store amd maintain such a mammoth pile of dynamic data(Storage devices,Server Capacity,Load balancing(Distributed data organization),physical security,Wear and tear problems,and so on).

 

3.Further in the case cited tha applicant sent his revised application on 11-02-2012. He did not receive any reply within 30 days and he appealed to the higher authority. As he was not given the information within 30 days, he should have been given the information free of cost.

Reply-You have half read the case and also misunderstood the same in view of RTI Act 2005. Kindly go through them once again with open mind. I am sure, you will be able to understand what the act is actually saying. Still,unfortunately,if you are not able to understand, please make me aware of the same. I will try once again.

Hope that clarify your doubts a bit if not completely

Regards,



Attached File : 608945297 cic ad a 2011 001501 m 94447.pdf downloaded 46 times
 
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Scientist/Engineer

have purposely stated that I am a scientist, firstly because in the Lawyers’ Club other members should not think that I am a lawyer and secondly as according to me law is also a science. Further I do not take things lying down, nor do I consider that judgments are to be accepted like scripttures without questioning. If one has to abide by a certain judgment that is only for practical reasons. In this Forum one can certainly scientifically analyze a judgment and give an opinion.

Under the RTI Act, the basis of charging a certain fees for the supply of any information under the Act has to be disclosed and it should only reflect the incremental cost of disclosing the information.

In the first case cited the Railway Board had fixed a rate of Rs.1000/- per page for reproduction of a passenger manifest. The applicant did not exactly claim that the rate was in conflict with the provisions of the RTI Act. He only claimed that his application had preceded the decision of the Board, which was not true.

The Central Information Commission has taken into account previous decisions of the same commission to support its own decision.

Now what is the purpose of the RTI Act? The intention is that the general public should not only have access to the information held by public authorities, but also it should be at an affordable cost. It is to be noted that it is free for those below the poverty line.

The stand of the Central Information Commission in most cases, though not all, has been that general Departmental orders fixing a price for the supply of any information cannot be questioned under the provisions of the RTI Act. Devious arguments have also been given to differentiate between departmentally priced information and other information.

Only one Information commissioner Shri Shailesh Gandhi has not agreed with the opinion of other information commissioners. As a result in the Decision given by the Information Commission cited later by the Honorable  Member Shri Sumitra Kumar, the Commissioners have relied on Maxwell’s interpretation of statutes: Generalia specialibus non derogant.

They have also quoted the case of Registrar of Companies vs. Dharmendra Kumar Garg. Maxwell’s interpretation of statutes as well as this case deals with conflict between one Act with another Act of Parliament.

Acts are acts of Parliament. The price fixations referred to here are made by bodies like the Railway Board, which are subordinate to Parliament. They cannot undo the intentions of the Parliament. In fact one can send an application to the Railway Board asking for the basis and justification of Rs.1000/- per page and also for the minutes of the meeting at which the rate was fixed.

I did not question the fixation of time limit for information of certain types. Often those concerned  do not tell the truth, when they say a specific document has been destroyed. There are certain procedures to be followed for destruction of records and recording such destruction. One should ask for details of the procedure followed and the names of persons who were entrusted with the responsibility of destruction.

Thank you

 
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