Confiscated goods
Guest
(Querist) 11 January 2013
This query is : Resolved
What is the exact rule in respect to confiscated goods (especially motor Cycles/Motor Vehicles) which are routinely being kept inside car pond at the respective police stations for years?
R.K Nanda
(Expert) 12 January 2013
academic query.
Guest
(Expert) 12 January 2013
Police, as custodian of such goods, can inform you better about the rules.
ajay sethi
(Expert) 12 January 2013
academic query
Guest
(Expert) 12 January 2013
Also, you being a great knowledge seeker, I would like to suggest you to subscribe all the parts of the Gazette of India as well as the Gazette of your state to help you gain as well as refresh your knowlege in all respects of official matters/ laws.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 12 January 2013
I do endorse the wise advice of Ld. Dhingra g.
Guest
(Querist) 15 January 2013
Advocates are also LAW OFFICERS of the court , I am told. Is it not expected of the Law Officers' of the court to provide extact rule position on the issue?
Anirudh
(Expert) 15 January 2013
An officer of the court is to assist the court and certainly not YOU, who is not the court!
Further more, you raised the same question earlier at:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Auctioning-of-confiscated-motor-vehicles--267126.asp#.UPSq9fJP1kg
But, without keeping the thread, conveniently jump the thread and open fresh thread for the reasons best known to you!
I have come to the irresistible and unassailable conclusion that you have no real issues.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 15 January 2013
We have seriously noted your respect towards The Officers of the Court many times in many threads started by you in this form.
Guest
(Querist) 16 January 2013
We are always confused..get mixed up with paid business site with one of social site which is certainly not for getting online business ..The law officers of the courts have refrained from answering queries which could be of great help to those trying to build a better livable society ..
Confiscated goods, motor vehicles are in abundance lying in dis-use at the police stations. The police is the vested interested party and corrupt as we all condemn them but Judiciary consists of police, Judges , the prosecutors and the Defence. Two of the vital elements are from the lawyers .com. Lawyers or the officers of the courts can not escape from their responsibility by hiding themselves behind the general impresion that Judges and the police are the root cause of the problems.
We need to start somewhere. We can start pressuring the police and the Judges to get those confiscated goods especially the motor vehicles in disuse to be disposed off very very quickly.I am sure evrybody in the experts panel may not dis-agree..
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 16 January 2013
None is disagree with the alarming position of such confiscated goods but none is agree with your style of putting the things.
Guest
(Querist) 16 January 2013
Ok I apologise if I am hurting the sentiments by putting the questions not in your terms and conditions. I am no convent educated and I do not claim to be Know all either. But if the issue is important as Sri Makkad agrees lets take this issue in this social site to take it to its logical conclusion. One step at a time would certainly help India to make our country more lovable..I honestly believe in that.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 18 January 2013
Better walk into the next police station (preferably at night). As this question. You get the answer and do not leave without answer.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 18 January 2013
go through section 451 & 457 of Criminal procedure Code in consonance with judgment of Hon'b;e Supreme Court of India titled Sunderbhai Ambalal Desai and C.M. Mudaliar
Vs.
Respondent: State of Gujarat
AIR 2003 SC 638
Entire legal position has been discussed in detail in this judgment.
Guest
(Expert) 18 January 2013
As regards your contention, "Advocates are also LAW OFFICERS of the court," you are misinterpreting their position. Of course, they are the law officers, but only to assist the court of law in individual court cases, not the individuals, who pose irrelevant questions off and on without having any relation with the matter.
Guest
(Querist) 19 January 2013
I am sometimes amazed at the angry reactions. I was serving the Army and was literally cut off from the rest of the world. Retired and found myself in need of the law officers of the court because some one did not like my face or may be the name as suggested by some Anirudh. And thus I came across hundreds of vehicles lying in dis-use inside/outside the police stations for days and years. While waiting for the Judge and the law officer of the court I interacted with some of the affected people whose vehicles are either confiscated or stolen. And then enquired further and googled. There are hundreds and thousands of them lying in dis-use. There is no dirty politician who is obstructing. Who is then to expedite the issue if police which is branded corrupt and abuse the system? I am sure some spirited lawyers will see reason and take the responsibility on to himself and bash on regardless. Somebody has to it.Let the members of the LCI take the lead.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 19 January 2013
I have already referred the judgment and now you take lead instead of lawyers as some retired persons can initiate this action.
Guest
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Since, as a retired senior defence personnel and man of actions, you have sufficient time to devote to pursue the matter, better do some constructive work by filing a PIL in the SC, rather than asking just academic queries.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Simply because you served as an Army Officer that does not give you a license that you will pose irrelevant queries on a serious forum and not expecting other to laugh or get angry.
There are lacks of citizens who served Armed Forces as an officer but they do not behave the way you do.
You say "We can start pressuring the police and the Judges to get those confiscated goods especially the motor vehicles in disuse to be disposed off very very quickly."
How? How are you going to pressurize?
Why do not you file PIL by paying a lawyer.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Let Mr. Mandal go to Supreme Court and wait for the outcome of PIL.
Anirudh
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Mr. Mandal has been throwing up issues as though others are not knowing. He is bringing those issues on which unless affected individual approaches the court, there will be lack of locus standi and one would be thrown out.
He also knows that individuals cannot do much in bringing about the desired legislative changes.
Further more, as individuals, while we know what is pinching one or two of us, and how we may like it to be remedies, bu we do not know how such a remedy would affect others (who may perhaps be in majority).
Therefore, Mr. Mandal can approach court of law on each and every point being raised by him if he is so affected individually (to satisfy the locus standi by showing that he is an aggrieved person) or take up issued under PIL.
Having thus understood the fruitlessness of raising issued in which one is not immediately involved and having no cause of action, Mr. Mandal should like to refrain from bringing this sort of issues in the LCI for question and answer session.
Yes, the points that he is evincing interest can be debated. BUT THAT SHOULD BE DONE IN THE FORUM SECTION. Or at best, he can submit well written Articles on those subjects in the Articles section.
I hope Mr. Mandal will appreciate this.
Guest
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Mr. Mandal,
Another suggestion from my side is that since you are a retired Army Officer having a tendency to learn law and also have enough time to pass, better take admission in IGNOU, which offer various law programs courses online or through distance learning with no age bar. You may check the following webpage of the university for more information:
http://www.ignou.ac.in/ignou/aboutignou/school/sol/introduction
Anirudh
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Dear Mr. Dhingra,
I understand your anxiety in trying to channalise the energy and inquisitiveness of Mr. Mandal. But, I have started to pity IGNOU right from now.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Many of us are no less than Mr. Haridas Mandal. Is that true?
Why can't we ignore these queries.Let his slate go clean with no answer from us.
Guest
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Anirudh ji,
Your observation is true, but that can make Mr. Mandal pass his time very well and even may compel the authorities of the IGNOU to improve the standard of the university and its programs. At least he would be doing something practically to bring reformation at least in one organisation, than fighting theretically with the members of this community on several self created vague issues.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Actually he has seen motor vehicles only. He does not know jewellery, shares, FDs, costly electronic goods, perfumes, antiques weapons etc also remain in Malkhana.
Mr Mandal can put RTI on this issue which will be a bigger .time pass as defined in another thread
Guest
(Querist) 19 January 2013
With all humility I tend to get a notion that lawyers.com are not very eager to change the system. It is just like that of Hindu Ponga Pandits whose children join YFE Youth For Equality but are not ready to dismantle the caste system as such as statuesque is very very profitable to them.
But I am determined to indoctrinate some of the members to take up issues which are literally eating the vitals of our country.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Mr. Mandal! You are free to do whatever you have determined. There is no use to show your 'bravery' here. You may get the desired results as you have claimed before us.
Anirudh
(Expert) 19 January 2013
YES MR. MANDAL, I AS A LAWYER IS NOT INTERESTED IN ATTENDING TO OR TAKE UP THE ISSUES RAISED BY YOU UNLESS I AM PROPERLY ENGAGED.
IF YOU ARE SO DETERMINED, COME FORWARD TO ENGAGE THE LAWYERS AND PAY THE PROFESSIONAL FEES ALSO GIVE VAKALATNAMA, SIGN THE PAPERS DRAFTED FOR YOU.
ARE YOU READY.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 19 January 2013
*Anirudh! I chase you not to become the lawyer of Mr. Mandal even if he is ready to pay you otherwise you shall to face deepest humiliation in his hands. when he is not tolerating the volunteers from their way of working, how can he tolerate you?
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 19 January 2013
Most apt advise by Mr Makkar. Recently in one of threads Mr Mandal asked a question on his own service benefit. I knew but withheld the answer for his promise not to humiliate. He made no such promise and got no advise.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 19 January 2013
चोर चोरी करना छोड़ सकता है मगर हेराफेरी नही.
Guest
(Querist) 20 January 2013
AIR 2003 SC 638 Gone through. Its clear that the court has the power to expedite disposal of the confiscated goods which includes all and sundry.
Now those are cases reported to the court of law based on the FIRs lodges by the affected people or the by standers etc. Police took those items and took them into their custody.
How it was brought to the notice of the court? Through the Prosecuting council some practising LAWYER engaged by the state. If there is an accused of stealing or mis-use he was named in the charge sheet duly approved by the Prosecuting Council. If the accused had engaged a lawyer that lawyer was also privy to the information of the confiscated goods.
Now is it not the duty of the prosecuting council of the state to expedite disposal of the confiscated goods? Why one needs a PIL to be filed by One Court Jester like me ? Aren't the officers of the court enough to tackle the issue and clear the back log.It is systemic failures and the lawyers .com are part and parcel of that failed system. It is time the prosecuting council or the defence lawyer, there must be one for each and every case that goes to the court of ask the Hon'ble Judge to order dispose of the confiscated articles expeditiously. Alternatively Advocates CoOp banks could be co-opted to to manage the confiscated items as they are managing surety money brilliantly for years.
Anirudh
(Expert) 20 January 2013
Dear Mr. Mandal,
Either you understand the issue or you do not understand the issue.
If you have understood the issue - you would not be foolishly persisting.
If you have not understood the issue in spite of repeated telling, I feel there is no use in telling you.
Now you quote AIR 2003 SC 638. What does it say? Does it say that each and every sundry can approach the court and get the items cleared? ABSOLUTELY NO. It only says that when the concerned persons approach the Court, the Court should try to dispose of the cases expeditiously. NOWHERE THE DECISION SAYS THAT ANYBODY (WHO HAS NOTHING TO SAY OR DO WITH THE CASE) CAN APPROACH the Court and get things done.
Only in those cases where the client feels that he should get the goods back under superdari, and if the court also feels that the goods has to be given on superdari, the things will be done. Otherwise not.
You should understand (I do not know whether you have an open mind to do so) that, as already told in my reply earlier, the courts are functioning with heavy work load, less infrastructure and therefore the criminal justice system is suffering heavy delays. There are clients who want to take undue advantage of such court delays to come out of the cases. In spite of prosecution wanting to speed up the cases it cannot be done mainly due to sheer backlog of cases.
Therefore, you and I do not have a role to play. It is the concerned parties. Whether or not they should do it is their job and not yours and ours.
We are working under an existing system. Just because I happen to be in the system, you cannot ask us to do which is beyond our control. What you are trying to say is if you are in a train, and if the train has been stopped because some other train is up in the track and only after the first train moves the other train can move, you ask us to get down push the first train and then facilitate the next train to move!
SORRY, YOU HAVE COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING HOW THINGS WORK.
NOW TELL ME WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU WERE IN THE ARMY. YOU WERE PART OF THE SYSTEM. YOU MIGHT HAVE NOT KNOWN ANYTHING ABOUT THE CIVIL ISSUES.
YOU KNOW THERE ARE BORDER ISSUES WITH ALL OUR NEIGHBOURS. TELL ME WHAT DID YOU DO TO SOLVE THE SAME. YOU ONLY HAD ONLY 4 OR 5 NEIGHBOURS (COMPARED TO PLETHORA OF ISSUES IN THE CIVIL SOCIETY). WHY DID YOU FAIL TO SOLVE THEM WHEN YOU WERE IN THE ARMY.
HAVING LEFT THE ISSUES UNRESOLVED, WHAT MORAL OR ANY OTHER PERCEIVED RIGHTS THAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING TO OTHERS?
UNLESS YOU GIVE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE QUERY, I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ANYTHING TO ANYBODY OR TO BREAST BEAT OR LAMENT HERE.
Anirudh
(Expert) 20 January 2013
Dear Mr. Mankad,
Please remember that I will also quote my fee commensurate with the nonsense that I have to handle!
Anirudh
(Expert) 20 January 2013
Sorry, Please read it as Mr. Makkad (instead of what I typed)
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 20 January 2013
in additon to what Mr Anirudh said I will add while you were in service hat did you do:-
(i) to ensure that jawans are not thrown out of service at prime age of 35.
(ii) reservation is made in Army jobs as well.
(iv) URCs funds are audited by C&AG (which you now say).
(v) civilians are not made entitled for CSD (which you now say).
(vi) etc........... etc......
Guest
(Querist) 20 January 2013
Now that my experties of my domain is called for let me ascertain:-
Raised By Sri Anirudh:-The commissioned officers in the Army though ordinarily insulated from the civil society by design but are required to perform the role of 3 in 1 namely Police , Prosecutor and the Magistrate under the provision of Indian Military Law ( Commonly referred as Army Acts & Army Rules). To be promoted to the rank of field Officer (Major) one has to pass the appropriate exam for Military Law as well as equivalent civil Laws under some sections where civil authority has the right to try the offender. And I did pass that exam with distinction.
Border Issue...There are two distinctly different categories in the Armed Forces-Arms , the fighting troops and the Services , the Logistics ones. Being an Be(Mech)from Calcuta University I was commissioned into the Corps of EME, a logistics Corps which is responsible to maintain and repairs all the arms and arsenals in the hands of Troops. The Arms namely the Infantry, The Armoured, the Artillary and their equivalent in two other Services namely Air Force & Navy are trained to engage in fight as per the current doctrine whenever called upon to do so by the civil govt of the day at the centre.
Guarding of the Borders-For your information during peace time it is the Border Security Forces ( A para military Org) which are ordinarily responsible to guard the international borders when otherwise called upon by the govt of the day to supplement the strength or when war is declared and the duties taken over by the regular military machine. Border issues with Pakistan and Bangladesh (may antagonize some hyper active "Desh Bhakt" who would never ever send their children to Armed Forces) is created by our own. Bangladesh was created by India and now it their turn to destabilise Kashmir, its all give and take type of genes which we have inherited from our AKHAND BHARAT which includes Pakistan as well as Bangladesh. And is going to stay as you want it to stay. It is no military dispute ever.
For questions raised by Dear Sudhir who seems to me is yet to recover from earlier skirmishes ..
Jawans are not thrown out of services @ 35..Rules are framed by the Parliament and not by military commanders. I have retired at 54 on superannuation and was not not thrown out as I signed the dotted line during my permanent commission. Yes lawyers who are fighting on the issue certainly can agitate this matter as in this technological warfare none is required to remain Young as is the present doctrine.
Reservation --BC /OBCs can mega merge and can frame rules as to their advantage.I highly recommend this action.
URCs fund..My PIL when admitted in the Supreme Court on the issue wil be an EYE OPENEER. One third of the built in defence accommodations and the lands are being commercially exploited in the name of running URCs for selling CSD goods as well as NON-CSD goods to almost any body and every body. Armed Forces are the mirror of the society which includes LAWYERS.COM as well. It is now old-fashioned to remain poor, honest, gentleman etc etc in the armed forces. Army is a big business now-a-days. I had experienced it and is fighting to get it course corrected. But I blame Agent Vinod and his Gang not demanding production of all the documents in respect to renting of govt accommodations to run URCs and Golf Clubs etc etc. No URC can be run in the Air. CAG need no permission to audit the land records and accommodations those are rented to the big sharks at throw away prices. I experienced it and I have questioned the office of the CAG as well.
Civilians & URC..I guess you do have an Army Bck Ground..Pl refer to Para 6 of Army Order 19 of 2003 where the so called civil defptt of Defe have been authorised to run their own URCs. As per para 12 of Army Order 2/2002/QMG civilain employees paid from Defence Estimates and also those employed in the Ministry /deptt of Audit etc have been authorised to avail CSD facility Goods only. In my PIL I have contested this Army Orders which are akin to GOI notifications but what that Damn CAG is doing?
etc etc
Now i can surely claim that the issues which could be brought to the limelight for larger good irrespective of location , space , community, religion , govt and services I have tried my best to fight it out. Yes it is difficult for me to engage some experts like you and pay for their Fees. I am sure there is kind a positiveness left in each and every individual which if catalyzed may yield excellent result. I had my seniors in the Army who despite all odds fought their way and brought some changes. Change is always dynamic. I am sure lawyersclubindia will not rest in peace and be part of the movement.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 20 January 2013
None can compete such non-sense postings.
Anirudh
(Expert) 20 January 2013
I just read out loudly whatever I posted here, to a buffalo in my neighbourhood. It understood the content and meaning. It laughed at me saying now it has clearly understood why people often say "Bullshit" and what it means!
Guest
(Querist) 20 January 2013
So I am able to catch the Bull by the Horn..
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 20 January 2013
Sure sure. We were already having the knowledge that you are a person meant to catch and graze animal like bull, buffaloes etc.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 21 January 2013
No you have not caught bull by horn.
If you really want to catch the bull by the horn then as earlier advised by me go to a thana at night dunk. Ask them this question and do not forget to use English abusive language. They will reply you.
Guest
(Querist) 21 January 2013
Devil's advocate.
