Criminal Trident Pack: IPC, CrPC and IEA by Sr. Adv. G.S Shukla and Adv. Raghav Arora
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Do matrimonial laws REALLY FAVOR WOMEN?

Page no : 5

sivani (engineer)     22 July 2010

@Ashutosh,   Hats off to you for understanding the plight that women go through.  I wish there were more men like you around then there would not be so many cases also.  Look with what honesty and sincerity Renuka & Aishwariya are talking about how they suffered. No matter how objectively they have tried to talk but immediately it is personalizedt and attacked.  This is exactly how these same men would have behaved with their wives - traumatised and abused them with their unobjective thinking and now when they are suffering the consequences they are crying from the roof tops.  No woman goes to the court till she has tried every possible way to save her marriage.  It is no fun for anyone to go through the traumatizing court procedures to say the least.  The way you guys talk as if the women are sitting in the court and enjoying. If you guys are fair enough to her for what you have put her through and what she will be put through in the future why would she run to court for the pitance they dole out in the name of just maintaining herself.  If you can have a life, why can't she have one too.  Why should only one party come out scanted. Yes she is scanted because our socio-economic scenario is that and will be that for another few decades.   No matter what except for a few women like the pepsi CEO and the likes, the man always climbs the ladder faster for several gender reasons and sacrifices on the woman's part and when it comes time to be fair and shell out, he cries hoarse even on the pitance amount doled out by the courts.  I wonder what would happen to these same indian men if it was like the west where they shell out  50%.  Yes they have irretrievable breakdown but it does not delink the responsibility that goes with the marriage.  Yes, you cannot force one to live with one who they don't want to but you also can't remove them fromt he responsibility they took up by marrying.  If you don't want the responsibility then don't marry in the first place. Who forced you to? Did the girl rape you to say yes to her?

3 Like

Parth Chandra (none)     22 July 2010

Sivani Madam,

1) As you claim that Men would not understand women's plea...Similarly Women don't understand problems Med might be suffering with in and out of home/office. so lets not go into that otherwise the discussion would never end.

2) As no one forced Men to get married...Similarly no one can force women to get married against his wish or you can go to police (you would love to) to complaint against those person who are forcing you (doesn't matter if you are major or not) - Now don't blame society as previous posts ...please I am sick of it.

3) If we belive that husband didn't give you money you asked for or in whatever didn't agreed to you - Does it mean you would charge him and his family with Dowry, Attempt to murder, physical/mental torture etc. etc and etc. Just as you now I can also understand why your life might have broken and because of whom!

4) Every Men/Women is free to think/discuss carefully about there priorities and opportunities that they might miss in case of marraige - So don't cry here for missing opportunities.

5) You mentioned "Look with what honesty and sincerity Renuka & Aishwariya are talking about how they suffered"

I can't see if they are honestly and ofcourse sincerly talking about how they suffered except below post by them

Aishwarya's Post - https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/Seeking-legal-advice-on-giving-dowry--15158.asp - This post says why court orders arrest of dowry givers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
&
https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/question-regarding-lawyer-s-fee--21464.asp - This post talks about how to get her money back after pocketing the money from husband as they did not need to charge husband with all the laws decided earlier and only few of them worked to extort money from him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Renuka's Post -
https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/Regarding-divorce-21381.asp - This talks about how to take divorce when husband is christian and wife is hindu !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
&
https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/e-mail-evidence-20763.asp - This talks about whether email can become evidence against wife or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

In none of the above they have mentioned any dowry demand/cruelty etc. etc. and etc. from husband and family...

6) finally again I am saying that the answer to the title of this thread is a big "YES" and if law does not favour women then whom does it favour as
i) Women gets maintenance/justice/revenge/protection/shared-house hold/imprisonment of husband and family and in a possition to extort money by point gun on husband's head -- Whereas husband can't even get child's visitation and divorce without coughing up money

So what is the point of dragging this discussion....Is it to make awareness of women's plea and to justify false allegations of dowry demand and cruelty if someone felt harrased/supressed because of some other pity things of married life??????????????

1 Like

Arup (UNEMPLOYED)     22 July 2010

PRESENT MATRIMONIAL LAWS ARE INHUMANE; IT NOT ONLY FAVOUR WOMEN BUT ALSO INCLINED AND  BIASED AGAINST MALE.

NOT ONLY LCI,  SIFF, 498A AND ALL PROMINANT MATRIMONIAL SITES WE SEE MALES ARE AGREEVED, ALL THEY ARE FOOLS? TORTURE WIFE?

WHY SC  SAYS HMA BREAKING THE HOME MORE THAN MAKING IT?

MATRIMONIAL LAWS NOT CONSTUCTING MATRIMONIAL HOME,

BUT CONSTRUCTING MATRIMONIAL JAIL.


(Guest)

arop ji join siff and we shold work to have these laws acting only in case of evidence in form of physical injury, forceful burning and death. in fact i m in favour of making only death penalty for dowry death, as it is rarest of rare crime against humanity. or 498a should be repealed and death/physical violence caused by husband should invite double the normal punishment.but law shud not be so biased so as to handover husbands family to police only on basis of false accusitions by an abla(read bala) nari.

i appeal all of those suffering false 498a to fight it tooth and nail and launch criminal prooceedings against other side to teach tem a lesson for making false statement just to trouble u.

2 Like

(Guest)

SIVANI JI, THESE LAWS WERE MADE TO PROTECT THOSE WOMEN  WHO NEEDED THEM REALLY. WIDESPREAD RAMPANT MISUSE OF THSE LAWS BY GIRLS TO EXTRACT MONEY
AND TO "SO CALLED PROTECT THEIR MARRIAGE BY ANY MEANS" HAS MADE EVEN REAL CASES LOOK LIKE SUSPECT.
MY APPEAL TO PARLIAMENT AND LEGAL FRATERNITY IS TO FRAME THSE LAWS IN SUCH A MANNER  THAT THOSE MAKING FALSE ALLEGATIONS OF CRIMINAL NATURE IN CIVIL OR CRIMINAL CASES
 OF MATRIMONY SHOULD GET SAME PUNISHMENT WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN AWARDED TO OPPOSITE PARTY IN CASE THEY WERE PROVED ON OPPOSITE PARTY. ONLY THEN THESE FALSE CASES CAN BE STOPPED.


2 Like

Arup (UNEMPLOYED)     23 July 2010

EXACTLY.

1 Like

(Guest)

RATHER THE LAW SHOULD BE PUNISHMENT TO ONE SIDE COMPULSORY, COURT TO DECIDE WHOM TO PUNISH ON BASIS OF EVIDENCE (NOT STATEMENTS)

1 Like

Bhartiya No. 1 (Nationalist)     24 July 2010

Here in this thread personal interests are overriding / prevailing over the public Interest.  Women are solely held responsible for the rising divorce cases, but the fact is no one wishes to recognize their genuine Independence, liberty and rights. Even some objects the HSA (amendment of Succession Act) 2005 which has made them equal sharer even in ancestral property. There are so many brothers who do not want to give share to their sisters in property.  It seems that they are either animal or from alien world landed up on the earth. We forget that they too are daughters and sisters of the same society in which we are living.

We all r aware of court procedure, and with prevailing situation misuses are there, as every law is being misused. It is not only the women rather men too are taking the advantages of the loopholes.  Everyone wants a law as per their will and whims or suits them most.

In spite of horrible experience why men go for another/second marriage?  Why they are dying to get married? Even some have made this business to earn money. They always want to be in advantageous position. Keep no surrendering attitude.

Before marriage the parents of groom shows that they are very rich, owns so many houses, the boy earns in six figures or seven figures, we r no way inferior to TATA or BIRLA. But after divorce, on question of maintenance, men feel proud to drag their wives to court as they are most powerful or influential people. While deciding maintenance some takes plea that she/wife is earning more than me so it is me who is eligible for maintenance, without any shame, some says the boy is unemployed and we a family of beggars eats only one time from where we get money for maintenance, some asks do I have to pay maintenance to children also.  It seems that they are only her children and it is her duty to maintain them and for that also they fight legal battle. Had court and law been not there, voluntarily no one would give any maintenance either to their wives or their children. They do not feel shame on showing their ego and might on their own wife and children and abandon their own blood. Just use them as much as possible, and after that throw them to the road.  Neither they want to follow the legislative law nor want to follow the customs.  When their sisters and daughter meet the same fate, then everybody praises 498A, DV acts etc.

These acts not being misused rather being used, but unfortunately only few are able to use them due to complicated court procedures.

Matrimonial deaths must be considered as rarest of rare cases, and mandatory capital punishment must be given to the culprits and all matrimonial laws must be enforced strictly, so that not only before marriage they think twice, but after marriage also people do not dare to harass their wives.

 An ideal wife is any woman who has an ideal husband. Booth Tarkington

Marriage is that relation between man and woman in which the independence is equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligation reciprocal. Louis K. Anspacher

My wife has been my closest friend, my closest advisor. And ... she's not somebody who looks to the limelight, or even is wild about me being in politics. And that's a good reality check on me. When I go home, she wants me to be a good father and a good husband. And everything else is secondary to that.   Barack Obama

Someone asked me why women don't gamble as much as men do, and I gave the commonsensical reply that we don't have as much money. That was a true and incomplete answer. In fact, women's total instinct for gambling is satisfied by marriage. Gloria Steinem

Trust me that as I ignore all law to help the slave, so will I ignore it all to protect an enslaved woman. Susan B. Anthony

1 Like

Bhartiya No. 1 (Nationalist)     24 July 2010

It is obvious and off course,  I do not have any knowledge of Law, as I do not belong to this field. But for illiterate people like me and others Hon. Justice Pradeep Nandrajog of Delhi HC has described/observed the definition of Law, which is below

 Whatsoever and howsoever may be the theories of law, the common man understands law by instinct. His instinct guides him that whatever is rational and fair is lawful and anything which is irrational or oppressive is unlawful. But, more often than not, law is discovered in a court room through forensic battles fought at length by legal luminaries. On many an occasion, after hearing arguments, a Judge goes into legal transcendental meditations to unfathom the niceties of the law.”

Any way thanks to everyone who have expressed shared their views.

 

Lawless are they that make their wills their law. William Shakespeare

"When men are pure, laws are useless; when men are corrupt, laws are broken." Benjamin Disraeli

At last, but not the least here is the line of “Doha” /“Chaupai” of the “Sri Ramcharitmanas” .

“JINHKE RAHI BHAVANA JAISI, PRABHU MURATI TINH DEKHI TAISI”

1 Like

Bhartiya No. 1 (Nationalist)     24 July 2010

By the way, learned Mr. D. Arun Kumarji,

Is it u who has drafted the constitution and laws of America, Europe and Singapore etc?

1 Like

(Guest)

@ Ashutosh

NO SIR, I was not even probably born when your kind que. asked matters were enacted by respecitve Parliament otherwise and / or however;


1.
I have desire to be one of the party in modifying / sending comments / re-drafting entire DV Act, 2005 for which I was the very first person from general public to send my detailed comments / my detailed observations / illustration with case laws of some 140 pages to Shri Mahesh Tiwari, Joint Director, Rajya Sabha Secretariat, Room No. 528 A, Parliament House Annexe, New Delhi-110001 based on Parliament Standing Committe, Rajya Sabha call for general Indian public comments / suggestion on DV Act, 2005 improvement which was pan India News Paper Advertised if you are aware of the same I am not sure of at this moment.


2.  
My comments / suggestions on Domestic Violence Act, 2005 various Sections / its Rules that I sent my comments based on call from Parliament Standing Committee are reproduced as PWDVA Interpreted Part 1 and Part II in this very FAMILY FORUM previous posts by me during this week and if you like you may rebutt your comments parawise there on my analysis of a Family Law publically please and I will for sure will respect / accommodate them.


Lastly, I apologise publically here for making a hurried comment to you as in Page 4 Post made 22 July 2010, 01:54 which resulted in your abv. bold rejoinder post to me and if that (apology) helps in cooling things of from the title of this particular post then kindly accept my apology afterall I per se is a human being.


Now, that my apology to you is interactive public document here, shall we adjust each other thoughts in each others good books now should we !  :-)

Rgds.
PS.:
I also read some case laws sometimes and particularly the below paras might remove the cloud of the this controversial title post which started with a good note but then turned personal may be !

IN THE HIGH COURT OF DELHI AT NEW DELHI,
CRL. R 462/2002
DATE OF DECISION: May 19, 2003,
HON’BLE MR. JUSTICE J.D. KAPOOR


23. These provisions were though made with good intentions but the implementation has left a very bad taste and the move has been counter productive. There is a growing tendency amongst the women which is further perpetuated by their parents and relatives to rope in each and every relative- including minors and even school going kids nearer or distant relatives and in some cases against every person of the family of the husband whether living away or in other town or abroad and married, unmarried sistes, sister-in-laws, unmarried brothers, married uncles and in some cases grand-parents or as many as 10 to 15 or even more relatives of the husband. Once a complaint is lodged under Sections 498A/406 IPC whether there are vague, unspecific or exaggerated allegations or there is no evidence of any physical or mental harm or injury inflicted upon woman that is likely to cause grave injury or danger to life, limb or health, it comes as an easy tool in the hands of Police and agencies like Crime Against Women Cell to hound them with the threat of arrest making them run here and there and force them to hide at their friends or relatives houses till they get anticipatory bail as the offence has been made cognizable and non-bailable. Thousands of such complaints and cases are pending and are being lodged day in and day out.

24. These provisions have resulted into large number of divorce cases as when one member of the family is arrested and sent to jail without any immediate reprieve of bail, the chances of salvaging or surviving the marriage recede into background and marriage for all practical purposes becomes dead. Result is that major bulk of the marriages die in their infancy, several others in few years. The marriage ends as soon as a complaint is lodged and the cognizance is taken by the police.

1 Like

sivani (engineer)     24 July 2010

WOW, Ashutosh are you for real?????????????

2 Like

(Guest)

Do matrimonila laws REALLY FAVOR WOMEN 

BOTTOMLINE and or DEAD END SCRIPT YOU DECIDE NOW

https://uchalla.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/housewives-prostitutes-and-beggars/

I recently participated in a TV discussion on why prostitution is on the rise in the country. I shared the panel with a closet feminist and a radical feminist, both of whom were of the opinion that prostitution was better than marriage since the house is unsafe for a woman, and she would at least get paid for her services if she were a prostitute.

I returned home thinking about their wise utterances and went to bed discussing the same with my husband.

I said, "For decades, feminists have claimed that one out of three women is unsafe in her own house. They have told us horrendous tales about how it was daily grind for men in the country to abuse, assault, set afire and murder their wives. They lobbied for laws which would facilitate a woman breaking her shackles and barging out of the "tyrannical household" or throwing her alleged oppressors out, whichever is convenient. They ensured that every woman who had a problem "clearly understood" that all her problems were because of men, marriage and the household."

"By the same token," I continued, "feminists have also been shouting off of rooftops that streets are terribly unsafe for women. They claim that everyday nine out of ten women are subject to manhandling, rape, s*xual assault, acid attacks and what not. While they believe that, ideally, a woman should able to walk safely on the street at midnight, they are constantly scaring themselves and the rest of us in the society about how women are unsafe on the street even during the day."

"What then, is the solution for women? Where do they go? What can they do?" I wondered loudly.

All of a sudden my husband had an epiphany and said, "A WHOREHOUSE!"

"YES," I agreed, "This is brilliant! It is neither the house nor the street. It is something in between – the utopia that my feminist friends on TV spoke so highly of. They have to be right. That's where they think our women would be safest, well paid and properly fed, and that's why prostitution, with the more fashionable label of `commercial s*x', is on the rise."

I then thought of how far we have come thanks to the feminist movement from pre-independence days.

We had a time when prostitution was a recognized profession and we had the Devadasi system. The system was severely condemned by communists as the handmaid of patriarchy. Their unrelenting crusade against the oldest profession resulted in a legislation for the "prevention of immoral trafficking" in 1956.

While this "prohibitive" legislation decriminalized prostitution, a few decades later, the Government went a step ahead and tacitly legalized commercial s*x and s*x tourism, recognizing how it can financially empower women and thereby boost the economy.

Today, we are at a point where we are talking about prostitute rights. While we have women's rights champions like Brinda Karat who proclaim that "Society should have no right to control what women wear or do", we have others who say, "If you respect a woman's right to say "no" to s*x, you should also respect her right to say "yes" to s*x."

Simultaneously, all heteros*xual relationships have been prostitutionalized so that a woman can claim compensation for all s*xual or non-s*xual, real or imaginary interactions at any time during or after the relationship.

A woman who chooses her hearth and home is not left behind either. She is tagged with the honorary title of "prostitute" as feminists believe that she is unaware that she is only trading s*x for social and financial security, and they will not take "no" for an answer.

We surely have come a long way, baby!

While I was still marvelling at this astounding progress, I saw a news item which said that the recent Government Census clubbed housewives, prostitutes and beggars into a group. What a timely gesture by the Government!

While housewives have already been clubbed with prostitutes, would it not be unfair to ignore the scores of women who have taken to a glorified form of begging by standing before the Courts of Law for maintenance and alimony from their estranged husbands?

Feminists have not only taught women to shun all the age-old encumbrances imposed by marriage and family but also to shed all inhibitions associated with parasitic living. Accordingly, there is no trace of shame in these modern liberated women, but it is with a sense of pride and entitlement that they artfully exact money, thus claiming their rightful inclusion by the Government in the club.

The feminists have reduced housewives into prostitutes and beggars long ago. The Government has just made it official by grouping them in the Census.

Why, then, is the Supreme Court cross about it? Beats me!

Copyright ©Uma Challa, 2010

1 Like

(Guest)

@d.arun kumar

 

 

wot is it u r trying to say in ur last post???i guess u havent understood the message i m trying to give thru my title...

 

whether its the govt,feminists,husbands,inlaws or whoever..............the essence of my message is the same

 

justice for a woman is v.hard in our country....only a few lucky ones get it..........and then the entire womanfolk is labelled as a family breaker

 

 

one thing i wana ask all men/women who think women shud not goto courts...

all of u,especially hindus wud be having high regards for Bhagvad Geeta

 

when draupadi was stripped naked,why was lord krishna supportive of arjun that he must support his wife..........infact he supported draupadi also.....why did he not say to draupadi"just be quiet and do not seek justice"

 

similarly wen duryodhana tuk away all his property,why did krishna support him in the battle and stated that its not the fight for property but the fight b/w gud n evil,ie, fight for one's rights........

 

till date we all regards bhagvada geeta to be the most sacred book of hindus......

 

however wen a woman goes to court after marriage after getting fed up and being thrown out of marimonial home which is her right and seeks  alimony as she is unsure if she will get married again,all the geeta readers here will call her act of seeking justice as some revenge

 

why this hypocrisy in indian society wen our own gods have insisted on seeking justice?

 

lord rama abandoned sita since she stayed in ravana's compound for so long,still we pray to him as a god.....wen such people are regarded as god,wot to say of today's men?and sita is considered "devi" as she gave her agni pariksha but never revolted....lol!

 

lastly we raise a hue and cry that wives are taking undue advantage of this law........and poor mother inlaws n sister inlaws are suffering...

 

if u hv 4gotten,lemme remind that this law also protects mother inlaws andd sister inlaws,ie,men's sisters who are abused by sons/brothers..so its not just benefitting wives....


(Guest)

AISWARYA JI , GOD WAS FOR TRUTH. IF A WOMEN WANTS TO SEEK JUSTICE SHE SHOULD NOT BE MAKING FALSE ALLEGATIONS OF DOWRY AND VIOLENCE. TATS WAT EVERYONE WANTS. IF  A WOMEN SEEKS JUSTICE BY JUST MEANS ITS HER BIRTHRIGHT. PROBLEM IS MIXING OF MATRIMONIAL LAWS WITH FALSE ALLEGATIONS OF CRIMINAL NATURE.

REGARDS

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