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Moses   30 October 2016

Dalit christians lose their sc reservation

Sir , Please will you provide Under which law/rule Dalit Christians lose their SC reservation,the moment they change their religion to Christianity.  ? Are they come under OC (UR) or OBC after conversion to christianity ? 



Learning

 12 Replies

Ms.Usha Kapoor (CEO)     30 October 2016

 

At present  discussions are going on whether to include Dalit christians  in SC category or OBC category  for job and  educational Institutions quota. Pleaae see the below given news item/discusion I came across online published in the Hindu.If you appreciate this answer please click the thank you buttonon this forum.

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CHENNAI, June 6, 201Updated: June 6, 2016 08:00 IS

Focus on quota for Dalit Christians

https://www.thehindu.com/template/1-0-1/gfx/facebook_logo.png  Chennai Connect

https://www.thehindu.com/template/1-0-1/gfx/tw_chen_20.png  Follow @ChennaiConnect

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Burning issue:The conflict in Eraiyur in Villupuram led to police firing in 2008.— File photo

Burning issue:The conflict in Eraiyur in Villupuram led to police firing in 2008.— File photo

Supporters argue that reservation is covered by the right to freedom of religion

The demand for according Scheduled Caste (SC) status for Dalit Christians has become more vocal with the recent Cabinet approval for including Narikuravars and a few other communities in the list of Scheduled Tribes (ST).

DMK leader M. Karunanidhi recently wrote to Prime Minister Narendra Modi seeking SC status for Dalit Christians and ST status for the fishermen under the category of marine tribes.

“When the Indian Constitution allows the right to freedom of religion, you cannot deny SC status for the Dalits just because they have converted to Christianity or Islam,” argued Viduthalai Chiruthaigal Katchi (VCK) general secretary Ravikumar.

What comes in the way of Dalit Christians getting the benefits of reservation set apart for the SCs was Para 3 of the 1950 Presidential Order, which states, “No person who professes a religion different from the Hindu, the Sikh or Buddhist religion shall be deemed to be a member of Scheduled Caste.”

“But the order was amended in 1956 to give the SC status to Dalits in Sikhism and again in 1990 to Dalits converted to Buddhism,” pointed out Anbuselvan, writer and Dalit researcher.

The National Commission for Religious & Linguistic Minorities, better known as the Justice Ranganath Mishra Commission, has strongly recommended deletion of Para 3 of the Presidential Order. The Sachar Committee also recommended reservation for Dalit Christians and Muslims. But the Centre had objected to these recommendations on the grounds that granting SC status to Dalit Christians and Muslims would encourage large-scale religious conversion.

Compartmental quota

As it remains a contentious issue, Mr. Anbuselvan suggested providing compartmental reservation for Dalit Christians within the OBCs because their presence also strengthened the struggle for separate reservation for the OBCs.

“I feel that their inclusion in the SC category would exert more pressure on the existing population benefitting from reservation. But they should be allowed to file cases under the Scheduled Castes and Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989,” he said.

As per the 2011 census, Christians constitute 6.12 per cent of Tamil Nadu’s population and in any church, whether it is Protestant or Catholic, Dalits account for a minimum of 60 per cent. In some areas, their presence has touched 85 per cent.

Christianity has offered Dalits the much needed impetus for upward mobility, said

Fr Jagath Gasper Raj, while acknowledging that it had not completely improved their status. “We must honestly accept that their condition is abysmally backward and reservation benefits will certainly improve their condition,” he said.

While Mr. Anbuselvan alleged that Dalits had to grapple with problems such as admission into schools and colleges, and administrative and ecclesiastic positions continued to be beyond their reach, Fr Gasper said it was a sweeping statement.

“Two Catholic Bishops are Dalits and the former Bishop of Madras Diocese is also a Dalit,” he said.

While making a strong case for reservation for Dalit Christians, Mr. Ravikumar, however, alleged that there seemed to be motive behind the Church encouraging the demand of Dalits. “Their attitude seems to be ‘do not ask for a share from us. But go to the government’. The Church should be more accommodative in the case of Dalit Christians,” he said.If you APPRECIATE THIS ANWER PLEASE CLICK THE THNAK YOU BUTTON ON THIS FORUM.

 

 

 

 

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Ms.Usha Kapoor (CEO)     30 October 2016

 

At present  discussions are going on whether to include Dalit christians  in SC category or OBC category  for job and  educational Institutions quota. Pleaae see the below given news item/discusion I came across online published in the Hindu.If you appreciate this answer please click the thank you buttonon this forum.

https://ds.serving-sys.com/BurstingRes/Site-104867/Type-0/d065eae1-e7a4-4dd7-b4eb-b956b9533a2d.gif

Return to frontpage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top of Form

 

Bottom of Form

 

CHENNAI, June 6, 201Updated: June 6, 2016 08:00 IS

Focus on quota for Dalit Christians

https://www.thehindu.com/template/1-0-1/gfx/facebook_logo.png  Chennai Connect

https://www.thehindu.com/template/1-0-1/gfx/tw_chen_20.png  Follow @ChennaiConnect

Comment (43)   ·   print   ·   T  T  

inShare

Share3

Burning issue:The conflict in Eraiyur in Villupuram led to police firing in 2008.— File photo

Burning issue:The conflict in Eraiyur in Villupuram led to police firing in 2008.— File photo

Supporters argue that reservation is covered by the right to freedom of religion

The demand for according Scheduled Caste (SC) status for Dalit Christians has become more vocal with the recent Cabinet approval for including Narikuravars and a few other communities in the list of Scheduled Tribes (ST).

DMK leader M. Karunanidhi recently wrote to Prime Minister Narendra Modi seeking SC status for Dalit Christians and ST status for the fishermen under the category of marine tribes.

“When the Indian Constitution allows the right to freedom of religion, you cannot deny SC status for the Dalits just because they have converted to Christianity or Islam,” argued Viduthalai Chiruthaigal Katchi (VCK) general secretary Ravikumar.

What comes in the way of Dalit Christians getting the benefits of reservation set apart for the SCs was Para 3 of the 1950 Presidential Order, which states, “No person who professes a religion different from the Hindu, the Sikh or Buddhist religion shall be deemed to be a member of Scheduled Caste.”

“But the order was amended in 1956 to give the SC status to Dalits in Sikhism and again in 1990 to Dalits converted to Buddhism,” pointed out Anbuselvan, writer and Dalit researcher.

The National Commission for Religious & Linguistic Minorities, better known as the Justice Ranganath Mishra Commission, has strongly recommended deletion of Para 3 of the Presidential Order. The Sachar Committee also recommended reservation for Dalit Christians and Muslims. But the Centre had objected to these recommendations on the grounds that granting SC status to Dalit Christians and Muslims would encourage large-scale religious conversion.

Compartmental quota

As it remains a contentious issue, Mr. Anbuselvan suggested providing compartmental reservation for Dalit Christians within the OBCs because their presence also strengthened the struggle for separate reservation for the OBCs.

“I feel that their inclusion in the SC category would exert more pressure on the existing population benefitting from reservation. But they should be allowed to file cases under the Scheduled Castes and Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989,” he said.

As per the 2011 census, Christians constitute 6.12 per cent of Tamil Nadu’s population and in any church, whether it is Protestant or Catholic, Dalits account for a minimum of 60 per cent. In some areas, their presence has touched 85 per cent.

Christianity has offered Dalits the much needed impetus for upward mobility, said

Fr Jagath Gasper Raj, while acknowledging that it had not completely improved their status. “We must honestly accept that their condition is abysmally backward and reservation benefits will certainly improve their condition,” he said.

While Mr. Anbuselvan alleged that Dalits had to grapple with problems such as admission into schools and colleges, and administrative and ecclesiastic positions continued to be beyond their reach, Fr Gasper said it was a sweeping statement.

“Two Catholic Bishops are Dalits and the former Bishop of Madras Diocese is also a Dalit,” he said.

While making a strong case for reservation for Dalit Christians, Mr. Ravikumar, however, alleged that there seemed to be motive behind the Church encouraging the demand of Dalits. “Their attitude seems to be ‘do not ask for a share from us. But go to the government’. The Church should be more accommodative in the case of Dalit Christians,” he said.If you APPRECIATE THIS ANWER PLEASE CLICK THE THANK YOU BUTTON ON THIS FORUM.

 

 

 

 

at

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Ms.Usha Kapoor (CEO)     30 October 2016

Yes! After conversion to christiannity Dalit christians loose their SC status. Hence therei is a clamour for inclusion of dalit  christians in SC category  or OBC category to imporv their educational and economic  status.

P. Venu (Advocate)     30 October 2016

It is a fact that a  person belonging to Scheduled Caste cease to be considered to be belonging to that community once he /she gets converted to Christianity and hence loses all the advantages and concessions thereto . The principle involved is obvious and simple.  An SC person is extended many a benefit in order to compensate  for the disabilities because of the Caste. Caste is a feature of Hinduism alone, and of no other religion. Hence in order to be eligible for the benefits thereto an SC person should necessarily be a Hindu. This is all the more so because Christianity does not recognize Caste system and one of the reasons why a  person chooses to get converted is to escape from the disabilities of Caste. 

It is true that Dalits belonging to Buddhist, Jain and Sikh religion do not suffer this disability. This because  the legal fiction 'Hindu includes Buddhist, Jain and Sikh'


(Guest)
Because of you converts Christians don't have value in India. Coz from church father to bishop all are sc. And Hindus blame Christians for converting ppl to Christianity. But fact is sc st ppl themselves come to church for conversion just to show society that they are white collared ppl and weekdays continue to reap benefits in govt offices drawing huge salaries on basis of sc st jobs. One of my cousin got job by showing sc st certificate. Really no equality in our country.

Rajan   31 October 2016

So if the constitution accepts castism only in Hinduism why does try goby ask for community certificate from Muslims and Christians too for state board exams?

Democratic Indian (n/a)     31 October 2016

Reservation or no reservation is based on caste. Caste of a person is based on birth like race/ racism. Caste of a person does not change by marriage or conversion to some other religion.

 

Since the Constitution is a secular document, it cannot discriminate on basis of one's religion or one's freedom of religious conversion status. If such condition that is subject to non conversion for enjoying right of reservation is being prescribed, then such condition would violate the freedom to convert guaranteed under Part III of the Constitution. Can anyone please point me where the Constitution says conversion will make one loose the caste one is born into?


(Guest)
Only if converted to Christianity caste will vanish. As in Christians there is no caste. There are only Christian unlike lingayat brahmo Sikh jain arya samaj sc st etc in Hindu.

Democratic Indian (n/a)     01 November 2016

Originally posted by : Gyan Prakash
Only if converted to Christianity caste will vanish. As in Christians there is no caste. There are only Christian unlike lingayat brahmo Sikh jain arya samaj sc st etc in Hindu.

Can you please substantiate what you are saying with evidence in the Constitution?

 

Caste system is based on principles similar to racism. By converting to become Muslim, Sikh or Christian one may socially escape the oppression of caste system but that does not change or vanish the caste of person. It remains the same.

 

Sikh, Buddhist, Jain etc. have been clubbed in the Article 25 of the Constitution with Hindus as a matter of legal fiction and some ulterior long term political motives. They are separate religions from Hinduism/ Brahmanism. For example Hinduism/ Brahmanism believes in countless gods, inequality of mankind based on caste system and idol worshiping whereas the Sikh religion like Islam and Christianity believes in One Supreme God, equality of mankind and idol worship is prohibited. It's ideological foundations are based on rejection of Hinduism/ Brahmanism, it's multiple gods, idol worshiping, ritualism and caste system etc.


(Guest)
First of all ppl don't have conscience. So no point in telling anybody anything. Laws need to be changed. Constitution itself is biased, with so many subs. Where is equality? Still ppl expecting free meal. Reservation. Result? Useless judges who don't have a penny worth brains (25 marks + reservation pushoff) passmark doctors . who is sufferer? Public at large. At least someone will agree with what I said here.

Moses   02 November 2016

Thank you Ms.Usha Kapoor.  I got answer from your post. :- Para 3 of the 1950 Presidential Order.

 

What comes in the way of Dalit Christians getting the benefits of reservation set apart for the SCs was Para 3 of the 1950 Presidential Order, which states, “No person who professes a religion different from the Hindu, the Sikh or Buddhist religion shall be deemed to be a member of Scheduled Caste.”

Moses   02 November 2016

Originally posted by : Ms.Usha Kapoor
 

What comes in the way of Dalit Christians getting the benefits of reservation set apart for the SCs was Para 3 of the 1950 Presidential Order, which states, “No person who professes a religion different from the Hindu, the Sikh or Buddhist religion shall be deemed to be a member of Scheduled Caste.”

“But the order was amended in 1956 to give the SC status to Dalits in Sikhism and again in 1990 to Dalits converted to Buddhism,”



 

 

 

 

at

Thank you Ms.Usha Kapoor

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