Need to understand the share of a daughter in a property already registered on 2001
ash83
(Querist) 02 June 2017
This query is : Resolved
We have ancestral property from our grandfather transferred to us. Grandfather has 4 sons and 2 daughters.
In 1981 unregistered panchayat arrangement was made for property share among 4 sons and 2 daughters done by my grandfather. Everyone has signed this document. 1 site was given each for daughter. Grandfather separately registered this site to daughters.
In 2001 registered sale deed was executed at register office from my grandfather to sons, in this document only sons name is mentioned and their is no signature from Daughters as they are okay to do so and their share of site is already given as per panchayat agreement and my grandfather passed away on 2006.
In 2010 one of the aunt has filled a case for equal share 1/6th share. Her DOb is in 1955 and married in 1975.
Please help me understand her share in property which is already registered on 2001 as per HSA 2005. What share she is entitled too. HSA 2005 section 6(6) says nothing should be reopened which is already registered or executed.
reposting as my other query was too long.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 03 June 2017
It is believed that you are all Hindu.
Confirm!
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 03 June 2017
"We have ancestral property from our grandfather transferred to us. Grandfather has 4 sons and 2 daughters. "
The property in the hands of Grandfather was self acquired or ancestral?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 03 June 2017
"grandfather passed away on 2006.
"
His daughters have share in his self earned/acquired, ancestral property (of their father: equal share).
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 03 June 2017
Full case file need to be referred, discuss with your lawyer.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 03 June 2017
Full case file need to be referred, discuss with your lawyer.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 03 June 2017
Full case file need to be referred, discuss with your lawyer.
ash83
(Querist) 03 June 2017
Thanks for all the responses. Kumar sir, the property my grandfather got is from his grandfather and some brought buy his father.
and yes we are Hindu.
In Phulavathi case 2015 the declaration from supreme court was
"Finally, Supreme Court held that the rights under the amendment are applicable to living daughters of living coparceners as on 9th September, 2005 irrespective of when such daughters are born. Disposition or alienation including partitions which may have taken place before 20th December, 2004 as per law applicable prior to the said date will remain unaffected. Any transaction of partition effected thereafter will be governed by the Explanation."
In our case, my grandfather and daughters both were alive after the HSA 2005. But Our Properties are already partitioned in registered office on 2001 by grandfather to us. We are assuming nothing can reopen the particitions which has already taken place. Section 6(6) as per HSA 2005.
Please clarify if still she is entitled for equal share. From many years we paying taxes and katha hold good in our names. We have one evidence of panchayat copy where in they agreed to partictions.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 03 June 2017
The partition is by valid/registered partition deed.
ash83
(Querist) 03 June 2017
Yes, The partitions are executed by my grandfather to us in register-er office.
But there is no mention of daughters name and signatures in it because as per panchayat agreement done in 1981, my grandfather separately executed registered deed from them for the site they were allotted.
In this case, is she entitled to her share. 1/6th ?. please clarify
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 03 June 2017
I am unable to open your PM's.
Either send in a format that can be opened or post in the thread.
ash83
(Querist) 03 June 2017
Hi Sir, As the partitions are already executed on 2001 from grandfather to sons in register office. and we are paying taxes from many years.
Though both father and daughter are alive after 2005. Does she still entitled to share for the partitioned property please ?
Dr J C Vashista
(Expert) 04 June 2017
Since the partition deed 1981 (by meets and bounds) was validly registered in 2001, how it is concerned with amendment in HSA applicable since 09/09/2005?
The partition settling the share of brothers and sisters has already attained finality in 2001. Moreover, the partition deed has changed the status of ancestral to self-acquired.
Please consult some local prudent lawyer for clarification, if I am wrong.
ash83
(Querist) 05 June 2017
Thanks for all the responses. In phulavathi case, it was ordered that both father and daughter has to be alive after HSA 2005 and nothing can reopen the partitions which has already taken place.
In our case. Both were alive after HSA 2005 , however the partitions by my grandfather has been executed to sons and daughters separately 2001.
My aunt is asking for 1/6th share in all the properties and the given site is not enough.
it is been 8 years since the case has been filed. Currently other lawyer is questioning the sons how they got the share of the properties.
1. When can my lawyer submit the facts that property already registered cannot be opened. He is saying let the questioning get finished only then we can submit phulavati case reference. Its already been 8 years.
2. Any way stay order on properties can be removed ? for improvements.
3. We are paying taxes all through and khatha in our father and uncles names. will this help in case.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 June 2017
"Grandfather separately registered this site to daughters.
"
What is this registration?
Say: A registered Gift deed!
ash83
(Querist) 05 June 2017
hi kumar sir, my grandfather given a GPA in the from of gift to her daughter name. Using that GPA my aunt has sold the site to someone else.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 June 2017
If GPA was valid/registered as on date of sale deed then action (sale) by your aunt should be bonafide.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 June 2017
How does a GPA becomes a form of Gift?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 June 2017
‘the property my grandfather got is from his grandfather and some brought buy his father.
‘
Property inherited upto 4 generations of male lineage is ancestral property.
Property inherited by a Hindu from his father, father’s father or father’s fathers’ father, is ancestral property.
Self acquired property if thrown in ancestral pool may be treated as ancestral.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 June 2017
First of all take help of your own local senior counsel of unshakable repute and integrity specializing in revenue/property/civil matters to determine:
--If nature of property (ies) was ancestral.
-- If unregistered panchayat arrangement could be some MoU, Family agreement etc………….In other words the worth of it…………..or is it not even worth the paper on which it is written.
The deed(s) registered by your grandfather may not necessarily be partition deed(s).
If indeed property has been partitioned then it should lose its ancestral character.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 June 2017
Is your father alive?
Generic discussions may not help you much.
In any case if case has been filed in court of law then court of law shall decide on the basis of all docs, facts on record and merits.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 June 2017
Online discussions have its own limitations and are not substitute to in person consultation with a very able local counsel specializing in respective filed of law (revenue/property/civil matters……………as in your case.
There are many threads at LCI also by unsuspecting querists/authors that have been fleeced by posers, impostors, posing as some Jackaal of all trades, Chief lawyer and posing firms as some Law Firms while the entity is not lawyer but a Liar
and firms are not Law firms but Liar's Firms.
ash83
(Querist) 06 June 2017
Thanks Kumar sir for the opinions. I just was trying to understand an second opinion to understand the outcome of the case filed in court. What i stated is facts. Its a unregistered GPA which is executed by grandfather to my aunt and all brothers have signed that. She wanted to build or sale on that site. But she sold that site to someone else Before our family partition deed is executed , GPA was done to her.
Its indeed a family partition deed done by my grandfather to sons on 2001. Each sons individual property shares are mentioned in their respective schedules.
So i understand since its registered it loses ancestral title and she cannot claim any share, though my grandfather was alive after 2005 HSA Act.
Rudrawar Narayanreddy
(Expert) 08 June 2017
If GPA to sell is executed by your Grand father in favour of daughter and she sold before 2011 it is valid. Next thing you have mentioned your Grand father executed registered sale deed in favour of four sons. This sale deed must be you are referring to partition deed. So I assume that Partition deed is registered and your Grand father effected partition of ancestral property amongs his sons. Then Your aunt is not entitled for share in the partitioned properties as the partition is before 24th december 2004. The exception provided to section 6(1) if the property is alienated and partitioned before 24 december 2004 daughters are not entitled for share. Provision is clear no any citation is required in your case.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 09 June 2017
You may carefully go thru the inputs shared by Mr.Rudrawar Narayanreddy.
If the said GPA is valid then action of sale sister should be bonafide.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 09 June 2017
"In 1981 unregistered panchayat arrangement was made for property share among 4 sons and 2 daughters done by my grandfather. Everyone has signed this document. 1 site was given each for daughter. Grandfather separately registered this site to daughters."
The said agreement seems to have been honored.
ash83
(Querist) 09 June 2017
Thanks rudrawar sir. Yes your understanding is correct partitions are executed by grandfather to sons in 2001 and GPA to sell to my aunt and
thanks kumar sir for helping to understand our situation in case.
Couple final quires.
1. Hope my grandfather (died in 2006) and daughter being alive after 2005 hsa act would not affect our case as per latest supreme court order in Mrs phulavarhi case saying both should be alive.. In our case as partitions are executed hope this would not affect.
2. In Current case situation. our opposition lawyer is questioning sons asking how they got properties( evidence). It is been 8 years till now. Not sure when can our lawyer can submit those points before judge for dismissal. Can you please help understand when he can file facts for dismissal of case.
