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(Guest)

Traditional Dress

My friend's son want to wear his traditional Dress DHOTI when he is flying Figher Plane (Jet). Our Air Force will object or allow him to fly. His argument a Muslim can keep his beard and do as he wish why can't I do the same like them. Thank God they are not demanding to put the Cap and do the Republic day Parade in New Delhi.

Please Judges, Advocates and fellow readers please clarify his doubt.  



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 15 Replies

A V Vishal (Advocate)     24 November 2009

There are no easy answers. The issue perhaps needs to be openly debated in the civil society.

An Indian Air Force NCO had challenged the IAF order of 2003 not allowing Muslims serving in the IAF to keep beards. Prior to that, Muslims serving in the IAF could do it with the sanction of  a senior authority. This is what the Indian government has told the Supreme Court now.

All Air Force personnel, while on duty, are required to wear similar uniform and do not display any sign or object which marks him distinct from others. In an armed force, it is always intended that to the extent possible, all personnel should look identifiably similar so that they may work in a cohesive, co-operative and co-ordinate manner.

The reasoning sounds pretty cogent and the principle of an indistinct religious identity in uniform should be followed across the board, without any exceptions. The problem in executing that order in the IAF lies with practitioners of Sikhism.

In this connection, it may be mentioned that when IAF is allowing its Sikh personnel to grow long hair and beard as it is in keeping with the injunctions of the Sikh religion, it must not disallow its Muslim personnel from keeping beard as it is enjoined upon the Muslims by Sunnah and Hadith to keep beard.  The IAF can in no case be discriminatory against the Muslims.  It has either to ask its Sikh personnel also to shave off their long hair and beard or else it must allow Muslims to grow a beard.  That would meet the ends of the justice.  Moreover, I think that IAF is allowing its Muslim personnel to have upto four living wives.  So, it is not totally free of religion as it claims.

The Additional Solicitor General had earlier provided the argument that would make it difficult for the IAF to keep the Sikhs out of the scope of this new order.

The government is bound to respect religious freedom…. But there is an overdriving concept of public interest when one is working in the armed forces. Can one sport a beard as an act of distinctiveness when the person is expected to work in an environment of cohesiveness? The pursuit of faith is not abrogated, but standing out is what concerns the forces.

Should a personnel deserve his identity as a matter of duty or his faith? The State is free of any religion. Those who have already entered service and are keeping a beard, we are not stopping them. But for fresh recruits, we are applying a uniform rule.

There are no simple solutions to this vexed question. History, tradition, freedom of pursuing religion (as deemed fit by an individual) versus public service norms, secularism (separation of religion from the state) and efficiency of the armed forces. This needs to be vigorously debated in the civil society rather than being dealt by an order of the court.

Perhaps, a note similar to the note issued by Council of Europe on wearing of religious symbols in public areas needs to be brought out in the Indian context as a starting point for the debate. It is not only Europe, even the United States is struggling with restriction on displaying religious symbols in military cemeteries.

One hopes that the Indian society and polity is mature enough to debate such fundamental issues in a healthy and frank manner. Or is the nation better keeping a controversy at bay by letting the court make its pronouncements on the subject.


(Guest)

Mk.Gandhi ji,

Really a wonderful query.

IAF Pilots wear flying uniform. Your friend's son can wear dhothi inside and outside he has to wear IAF flying uniform. In uniform irrespective of religion there is no excuse.

Growing beard is not allowed by its commissioned and non-commissioned ranks personal except to Sikhs in IAF and in Indian Army . In Navy there is excuse. 

 


(Guest)

Mk.Gandhi ji,

 

Really a wonderful query.

 

IAF Pilots wear flying uniform. Your friend's son can wear dhothi underneath of IAF flying uniform. All defence personnel should wear defence uniform irrespective of their religion.

 

Growing beard is not allowed except to Sikhs in commissioned and non-commissioned ranks personnel in IAF and in Indian Army . In Navy there is excuse

K.C.Suresh (Advocate)     25 November 2009

UNIFORM MUST BE IN UNIFORM. A CLEAN SHAVED SOLDIER IS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER FACES. A SOLDIER IN FULL UNIFORM IS THE PRIDE OF THE NATION. THERE WAS "NAIR REGIMENT" (NAIR IS A DIVISION OF HINDU IN KERALA)  IN  TRAVANCORE STATE IN RAJAS RULE. LIKE THAT, WE DON'T HAVE DEVISION OF REGIMENTS IN COMMUNAL BASIS IN COOUR, DRESS AND SEPERATION BY CUSTOMS, WHAT EVER INTERPRETATIONS WE HAVE. WE MUST HAVE ONE FORCE THAT IS INDIAN THAT TOO IN UNIFORM INDIAN UNIFORM. THE OLD DRAGGONS OF RAJAS RULE STILL HUNTING US. WIPE OUT THE OLD TRADITIONAL OUT LOOK. BE A SOLDIER. IF YOUR FRIENDS SON WANTS DHOTI LET HIM HAVE IT NOT WHILE HE IS WORKING AS AN IAF PILOT. 


(Guest)

I do accept  Mr.A.V.Vishal, Sri..P. Sathya Prakash ji and Mr. K.C.Suresh vies in this regard.

1. A cleaned shaved Soldier is better than any other faces.

2.In uniform irrespective of religion there is no excuse.

3. All Air Force personnelwhile on duty are required to wear similar uniform and do not display any sign or object which marks him distinct from others.

Now the question and answers are there with well educated three persons.

The answers in three persons views are like 1000000 people.

When 1000000 peoples views are like this who is SC and SO CALLED GOVERNMENT?

A single person can't  Dictate this Defence to follow the Law.

Rajan Salvi (Lawyer)     25 November 2009

Why squable over petty things. There are so many other things worth our attention. Before a person becomes a pilot he has to take a 'pilot apptitude test ' which i believe is taken only once in a life time. Your son is bestowed with this gift. Let him make the most use of it. In some ways he is unique. Not everybody passes the test.

Rajan Salvi (Lawyer)     25 November 2009

PS Your name and argument do not jive.


(Guest)

IT IS TRUE. DID YOU EVER SEEN ANY MUSLIM WHEN HE IS GETTING MARRIED ARE THEY HAVING THE TRADITIONAL BEARD AS PER THE ISLAMIC RELIGION?????

IF THEY ARE NOT KEEPING THE BEARD WHY THIS DRAMA IN OTHER PLACES????

WHY INDIAN COURTS AND GOVERNMENT IS ENTERTANING THIS MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN INDIA?????????


(Guest)

RAJAN SALVI DOES IT MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE WITH NAME AND APPRENCE. DID YOU EVER ASKED WHAT IS SONIA GANDHI'S NAME?

DID YOU EVER ASKED OUR DEFENCE MINISTER A.K. ANTHONY WALKING WITH LUNGI AND TAKING SALUTE ?

I ALREADY MENTIONED         PABT   THAT MEANS     PILOT  APPTITUDE BATTERY  TEST. EVERY ONE KNOWS ABOUT IT SIR.

HE CAN FLY ANY TYPE OF AIR CRAFT  IN INDIA. WE CARE OUR CUSTOMS AND TRADITION NOT THE COMMAND AND DEMAND OF OTHERS. THAT'S WHY STILL HE IS SON OF THIS GREAT MOTHER LAND.


(Guest)

Mk. Gandhi ji,

Dress is the identity of the profession / job. Defence is a pride of every country. There is a dress code for our defence. Wearing a Dhothi or growing beard is custom related. Our politicians can wear any type of dress. Our defence Minister can wear Lungi or shorts and can fly in Indian Air Force Plane. He can grow beard as long as he can and fly in IAF plane. A president of India (Supreme Commander of Armed forces), Prime Minister of India can fly in his traditional dress in IAF plane.

It may happen / everything is possiable in our country for the sake of votes our jokers politicians may pass an amendment in the parliament that growing a beard and wearing traditional cap is allowed but wearing dhothi is not allowed in defence.

We should aware of members of parliament jokers.


(Guest)

P.Sathya Prakash ji,

I appreciate your expression and views. If one person can do why can't other do the same.

Difence Minister is like you and me. When Swami Vivekananda went to America he followed our tradition. At that time there is a respect. Now you can see Home Minister P. Chidambaram when he attended a Muslim Fatwa meeting he was wearing a white pants. But for official trips he use his traditional lungi. What does it mean?

Even Indian President Mrs. Prathiba Patil today she dressed up Pilot's uniform. Are these so called Muslims why they are creating a question mark in our daily society. One day Vandemataram. Another day Babri Masjid. Every institution there is a code. If you want to join with them he/she must follow other wise stay at home.

Even Former President of India Dr. Abdul Kalaam is not keeping Muslim traditional beard. He is also a respected Muslim too in India.

We never separated Muslims rights in India. We allowed them to wear Burka, allowing them to pray and so on.

Every fine day they come up with a new idea to disturb the peaceful society. That's why people they hate these Muslims around the world.

Prodyut Banerjee (Advocate (Corporate Lawyer))     25 November 2009

Are we going to see some soldiers in Lungi with beard, some soldiers in Dhoti with moustache and some with gown?

Come on ! every soldier whether he is Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or Cristian should follow uniform dress code. No excuse.


(Guest)

GOOD. WE NEED THIS TYPE OF REACTION FROM EACH AND EVERY CITIZEN OF INDIA. WHAT IS UNIFORM IN OUR DAILY LIFE IN OUR CULTURED SOCIETY.


(Guest)

Indian heart, moral and ethics are daily uniform of innocent indian citizens. .


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