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Ramesh Sawant (Business)     12 July 2013

Pagdi system landlord not accepting rent

Hii

I am having a padgi shop from 1961; It was in my grandfather name.

The landlord Is not collecting rent from us from OCT 1995, Our rent was 70 Rs as per Oct 1995 bill but He was demanding us to pay Rs.2000 so grandfather denied to pay the rent. So once we had send money order via lawyer in 1996 (the receipt of that money order is also misplace).Now its 2013 almost 18 years have pass the landlord have not collecting rent from us. We are ready to pay the rent

The bldg was in the name of Landlord father for which we have receipt now the bldg have been transfer to his son As his father is dead but his son is not ready to take rent. I went to meet him many time to clear the amount but he was like demanding us to pay 2000 per month till date, we request him that we can pay you Rs.500 per month irrespective the rent was just Rs.70  but he was not ready to bulge less then 2000rs which is too high and we can afford that.

My grandfather expired on 2005; we don’t have any family dispute internally.

My father used to do business till 2011 so till that time we used the premises well.

Now the shop is currently not used as my father is not well and not able to go to the shop. The shop is full with the business goods, we do pay all due like electricity bill and telephone bill every month on time. We do have shop establishment upto date without any issue. In filling of income tax return we do make a point to show a small amount of Profit from shop as some time dad do supply good from the shop directly without sitting in the shop.

We want to clear this issue ASAP please do advise us

 

(The landlord son have file a case on the neighbor shop in 2010 asking for the property for personal USE who had not paid the rent for just 8 month(rent Rs.500) ,but he is not filing case on us, Whenever I speak with him he say that your rent is remaining from 1978 or sometime he said you have not paid from 1980 / 1986 But we do have receipt of 1995 and I just tell him we do have more receipt of ahead year need to find them, So from this I feel that he don’t have record of the rent which his father have collected)



 16 Replies

Sudhir Kumar, Advocate (Advocate)     12 July 2013

Hii I am having a padgi shop from 1961;

 

·         How pagri you paid at that time?

·         What will the present value of pagri even if interest is addd for 52 years?

·         How large is the property?

·         Where house is located?

 

It was in my grandfather name.

 

·         Has contract been renewed or substituted?

 

The landlord Is not collecting rent from us from OCT 1995,

 

·         How do you prove that you are not paying rent?

·         What effect he did to get the house vacated?

 

 Our rent was 70 Rs as per Oct 1995 bill but He was demanding us to pay Rs.2000

 

·         Did he do a crime?

 

so grandfather denied to pay the rent.

 

·         He is still a gentleman who did not start eviction process.

 

So once we had send money order via lawyer in 1996 (the receipt of that money order is also misplace).

 

·         After six months even post office does not provide record and you never sent the rent again How do you prove that you are not refusing to pay rent?

 

 

Now its 2013 almost 18 years have pass the landlord have not collecting rent from us.

 

·         He probably does not want to be a begger. Have you made application for deposit of rent in court?

 

We are ready to pay the rent

 

·         But how do you prove that you intend to pay?

 

 

The bldg was in the name of his father

 

·         Whethert in the name of your family?

 

for which we have receipt now the bldg have been transfer to his son but his son is not ready to take rent. I went to meet him once to clear the amount

 

·         So you never met him again?

 

 but he was like demanding us to pay 2000 per month till date, we request him that we can pay you Rs.500 per month but he was not ready to bulge less then 2000rs which is too high

 

 

·         How do you think it is too high?

 

and we can afford that.

 

 

·         Then why donot you pay?

 

My grandfather expired on 2005; we dont have any family dispute internally. My father used to do business till 2011 so till that time we used the premises well.

 

 

·         SO it was a commercial property?

 

Now the shop is currently not used as my father is not well and not able to go to the shop.

 

 

·         So you do not nee the property as on now still want tocling on to it?

 

The shop is full with the business goods, we do pay all due like electricity bill and telephone bill every month on time.

 

 

·         Your family had a business there and needed electricity so had to pay for the same. Did you have any choice?

 

We do have shop establishment upto date without any issue. In filling of income tax return we do make a point to show a small amount of Profit from shop as some time dad do supply good from the shop directly without sitting in the shop.

 

 

·         So you never needed that shop and kept it as a sham?

 

We want to clear this issue ASAP please do advise us (The landlord son have file a case on the neighbor shop in 2009 who had not paid the rent for just 8 month(rent Rs.500) ,but he is not filing case on us,

 

 

·         This can be so that either he is emotionally attached to your family or you have a posed deep terror threat on him?

 

 Whenever I speak with him

 

·         So you are contradicting your version that you met him only one?

 

he say that your rent is remaining from 1978 or sometime he said you have not paid from 1986 But we do have receipt of 1995

 

 

·         So you are admitting not  having paid since long which even the landlord has forgotten?

 

and I just tell him we do have more receipt of ahead year need to find them,

 

 

·         You are just bluffing the gentleman and will not stand cross-examination.

 

So from this I feel that he dont have record of the rent which his father have collected)

 

 

·         You do not have record of your payment or intention thereof.

 

 

The reactions are based just on the facts stated by you.

Ramesh Sawant (Business)     12 July 2013

Hii I am having a padgi shop from 1961;

 

·         How pagri you paid at that time?

·         What will the present value of pagri even if interest is addd for 52 years?

·         How large is the house?

·         Where house is located?

 

 

 Sir it is a shop around 300 sq feet located in Mumbai (Malad).

SIR we don’t know how much pagri was paid at that time by my grandfather, my dad say he must have paid 10000.For that there is no receipt of payment

 

It was in my grandfather name.

 

 

·         Has contract been renewed or substituted?

No there is nothing done to renewed or substituted

 

 

The landlord Is not collecting rent from us from OCT 1995,

 

·         How do you prove that you are not paying rent?

·         What effect he did to get the house vacated?

Sir the landlord is not collecting rent from neighbor shop also,he never come and when ppl go to his house to give cheque he never give them receipt,

Sir he have not done anything,as our shop is fully loaded with saleable good,we do have electricity bill,telephone bill till date and shop establishment full updated till date.

 

 Our rent was 70 Rs as per Oct 1995 bill but He was demanding us to pay Rs.2000

 

·         Did he do a crime?

Sir how can someone demand so much high rent,there are law to increase the rent,Mumbai rent act protect this I feel so,

 

so grandfather denied to pay the rent.

 

·         He is still a gentleman who did not start eviction process.

 

Sir if he send us the notice that you have not paying rent so we will pay it immeditatly but he is not doing that as if he send us legal notice he will have to demand rent as per law @Rs.70 or any increment allow by the law,

 

So once we had send money order via lawyer in 1996 (the receipt of that money order is also misplace).

 

·         After six months even post office does not provide record and you never sent the rent again How do you prove that you are not refusing to pay rent?

Sir that our mistake we have never send rent again,

 

 

Now its 2013 almost 18 years have pass the landlord have not collecting rent from us.

 

·         He probably does not want to be a begger. Have you made application for deposit of rent in court?

Sir we have not made application for deposit of rent in the court.

 

We are ready to pay the rent

 

·         But how do you prove that you intend to pay?

That what I am asking how to pay the rent

 

 

The bldg was in the name of his father

 

·         Not in the name of your family.

 

for which we have receipt now the bldg have been transfer to his son but his son is not ready to take rent. I went to meet him once to clear the amount

 

·         So you never met him again?

Yes sir we have met him many time to settle the issue,

 

 but he was like demanding us to pay 2000 per month till date, we request him that we can pay you Rs.500 per month but he was not ready to bulge less then 2000rs which is too high

 

 

·         How do you think it is too high?

Sir Mumbai rent act protect this I feel

 

and we can afford that.

 

 

·         Then why donot you pay?

Sir if he demand any rent how can we pay,he have to demand rent as per Mumbai rent act

 

My grandfather expired on 2005; we dont have any family dispute internally. My father used to do business till 2011 so till that time we used the premises well.

 

 

·         SO it was a commercial property?

Yes sir it’s a commercial property

 

Now the shop is currently not used as my father is not well and not able to go to the shop.

 

 

·         So you do not nee the property as on now still want tocling on to it?

Sir we need the property we are planning to start a new business as soon as this rent issue is resolve

 

The shop is full with the business goods, we do pay all due like electricity bill and telephone bill every month on time.

 

 

·         Your family had a business there and needed electricity so had to pay for the same. Did you have any choice?

Sir I am trying to prove that if I m ready to pay every month bill around Rs.600 why wud I nt pay rent Rs.70 or any increment as per Mumbai rent act

 

We do have shop establishment upto date without any issue. In filling of income tax return we do make a point to show a small amount of Profit from shop as some time dad do supply good from the shop directly without sitting in the shop.

 

 

·         So you never needed that shop and kept it as a sham?

Sir we need the shop as of now I m doing business from my home,so as soon we get the rent clear we will start a new business,Sir I am just trying to prove that the shop is not been used,we pay all dues everymonth,In income tax we show profit from that shop,Why we do this so that the landlord cant prove we don’t need the shop as we don’t use it

 

We want to clear this issue ASAP please do advise us (The landlord son have file a case on the neighbor shop in 2009 who had not paid the rent for just 8 month(rent Rs.500) ,but he is not filing case on us,

 

 

·         This can be so that either he is emotionally attached to your family or you have a posed deep terror threat on him?

Sir He is not emotionally attacted to us nor we have posed a deep terror threat on it,We are simple ppl,I seriously feel he don’t hv receipt till where we have paid rent,Or he feel that if he file a case on us he cant not demand more than the amount that law will agree to

 

 Whenever I speak with him

 

·         So you are contradicting your version that you met him only one?Sir we meet him 2 time and many time we had a word with him on phone

 

he say that your rent is remaining from 1978 or sometime he said you have not paid from 1986 But we do have receipt of 1995

 

 

·         So you are admitting not  having paid since long which even the landlord has forgotten?

Sir as we have the rent receipt so he sud also have record of the same.If he hv forgotten then he can see the records,

 

 

and I just tell him we do have more receipt of ahead year need to find them,

 

 

·         You are just bluffing the gentleman and will not stand cross-examination.

Sir I m bluffing it as he dnt have records,

 

So from this I feel that he dont have record of the rent which his father have collected)

 

 

·         You do not hve record of your payment or intention thereof.

Sir we are ready to pay the rent if he had send notice,

 

Sir what should we do now you please advise us

 

 

 

 

Sudhir Kumar, Advocate (Advocate)     12 July 2013

You want to have a 300 sq ft shop at a rent of Rs 500/- (while actual rent now will be more than 10 times) otherwise you will have the same without being needed and yet not pay any rent while you have not contract/receipt and you will also not deposit rent in court. If you intend to pay rent you can keep sending the MO which may be returned and documented. You do not need the shop as you are doing business from home and not capable to use the shop.  You are just showing some income from the shop.

Ramesh Sawant (Business)     12 July 2013

Sir

There is a act under Mumbai rent act which control the rent and protect tenants sir

Tomorrow landlord will come and ask pay 5000 or 50000 as rent which legally is not allow under Mumbai rent act. I stay in padgri house of 900sq feet for which the rent is just Rs.320.

I don’t know why are you not helping us by advising us what should we do next to settle the matter

I feel if the landlord sends us the LEGAL notice for paying the balance Rent he can’t ask for 2000rs he will have to ask Rs.70 plus other increase tax as per the Mumbai RENT Act  and the landlord have never done any major repair (in fact he have never repair anything)

We are using the shop as godown where we keep our stock and we do supply good when required, We have document to prove that we are using the shop as godown and we are doing supplying business from there. We do show profit from  the supply business we do from the shop,we do pay all electricity bill, telephone landline bill, shop establishment.

Please advise us what should we do next

 

 

Ramesh Sawant (Business)     12 July 2013

One of the good lawyer name Kishor mehta mail me this and you can see sudhir Kumar replying on this forum Without knowledge of  THE MAHARASHTRA RENT CONTROL ACT, 1999

 (MAH. ACT NO. 18 OF 2000) 

The landlord can not ask you to vacate ordinarily, however to be on safe side, please send him to total amount of rent, per money order, from October 1995 till date as per the amount of the last rent receipt, if the landlord does not accept and returns the money order, please keep the money order receipts to show that you are ready and willing to pay the legal rent of the premises

 

Need some more advise please help me


https://housing.maharashtra.gov.in/Sitemap/housing/pdf/actsrules/THE_MAHARASHTRA_RENT_CONTROL_ACT.pdf


Sudhir Kumar, Advocate (Advocate)     13 July 2013

This is a chaitable forum and you are getting free advise.  Please pay some advocate and make him to read wahtever law you want advise.

Devajyoti Barman (Advocate)     13 July 2013

The author seems to have  no reagrd for the  professional/expert and his query should not be entertained any more.

Ramesh Sawant (Business)     13 July 2013

I do know it  chaitable forum and you are getting free advise,But without knowledge no one force you to advise,


But what are you doing here Sudhir Kumar  Nor you are giving advise in fact you dont know any law properly and you are argueing like anything


@Devajyoti Barman Sir Kindly read what unknowledge person Sudik Kumar writting ,Sir i do respect professional/expert person advise,Kindly read the forum this person is like agrueing like a fool, He is just agrueeing and saying non sense thing without any knowledge of mumbai Rent control Act,


IF ANY PERSON DUMB PERSON LIKE Sudhir Kumar  DONT HAVE KNOWLEDGE WHY DO HE NEED TO REPLY ON FORUM TOTALLY INSANE



Kumar Doab (FIN)     13 July 2013

You may carefully go thru the advice of the lawyer Mr. Mehta:

The landlord can not ask you to vacate ordinarily

The non payment of rent for the last 18 years is not an ordinary matter…………

Still it is your prerogative to pursue the advise in the manner as deemed fit at your end.

If the matter converts into litigation the lawyer of the landlord would also be aware of the THE MAHARASHTRA RENT CONTROL ACT, 1999 and precedence’s.

The forum is for everyone and everyone is expected to observe decorum and refrain from using derogatory and uncivilized language.

The querist should have refrained from writing the words he has written in an open forum.

The administrators may make a note of it.

The advice of Mr. Burman is fully endorsed.

The posts in this thread from my side also end here.

 

 

 

Raj Kumar Makkad (Adv P & H High Court Chandigarh)     14 July 2013

Seeking free adice and accusing the experts?

 

This is not tolerable and such querists are not required to be entertained.

Ramesh Sawant (Business)     14 July 2013

Sir i Do appolgies if i have said anything wrong but kindly read the advise Sudhir Kumar he is behaving like he dont have any knowledge,I have come here to take advise i have no hard feeling for Sudhir Kumar too... But if some one dont know some state law he sud not speak on it,Kindly see what advise he gives

Sudhir Kumar i appologies if i have said anything wrong but it who provke me for the same,Once again am sorry for the same.

 

There is a mumbai Rent control act for tentant protection ,Landlord cant demand high rent without any provision mention in mumbai rent act.

 

I do understand the landlord can file a case on me,but he is not doing so as he know the fact if he goes in court he will loose the case and court will ask me to pay Rent @Rs.70 + any increment of tax  for past due and the max court will ask me to pay 15% interest.And I am guesing he dont have last bill which i have paid as he keep saying different year everytime,If we assume he dont have record and if he file a case again me that i have not paid rent from 1992 then also he will loose the case as i have rent receipt of 1995.This may be because Landlord was his father name and he got it transfer in his name in 1997 after his father dad.I know I m guessing this,Infact the landlord son have never send us any letter claiming that now the right full owner have change or he is the rightful owner of the property..

 

The landlord  Son have file a case on the neighbour shop who had not paid rent for just 8  month @Rs.500. He file case like he need the property for personal use,and the neighbour shop was close and he was not in town the electricty line and telephone line was cancel due to non payment So his case was strong,The case his strong and still going in court,

 

I am Using the shop as godown,We have full saleable good over there,we do pay month dues of around 500rs (telephone and electricty)everymonth without any late payment,We do show profit from sale of good by supplying.

 

And this landlord never come to take rent from any one.all shop keeper are fed up with this landlord. All shopowner rent are due from last 2-3 years,As landlord never come and when they go to give rent to his house he never give them rent receipt for the same..

 

Now do advise me what should i do to go ahead,and safe guard my self.



(Guest)

Dear Ramesh Sawant,

 

I am happy to know that, as per your post, you got a solution to your problem from some good lawyer. I am sure the matter would have ended there, itself. When you were happy with the solution, I am unable to find any ground for stretching the matter too far on your part merely with the intention to insult someone on this forum.

 

Can I pose two pertinent questions here for your reply with reference to your post, “One of the good lawyer name Kishor mehta mail me this and you can see Sudhir Kumar replying on this forum without knowledge of the Maharashtra Rent Control Act, 1999?

 

1)    (1)   Is the said lawyer a certifying authority about the knowledge of some other expert registered at the LCI?


2)     (2)  How you are sure that the said lawyer (may be unknown even to you) had judged his knowledge very correctly and also that he would have advised you correctly about his knowledge by keeping himself behind the curtain by sending you email, instead of posting his reply at this page of your question?

 

About your direct and disparaging question, “but what are you doing here Sudhir Kumar  Nor you are giving advise in fact you dont know any law properly and you are arguing like anything,” to Shri Sudhir Kumar on that person’s advice without verifying about the knowledge of the said expert, you need to reply the following questions:

 

(1 (1) What was your object to insult him in this open forum merely on ‘behind the curtain advice’ of that lawyer, when you don’t know anything about Shri Sudhir Kumar?

 

(2 (2)  Also, would that lawyer come to your rescue if Mr. Sudhir Kumar prefers to file a defamation suit against you for throwing an insult on him in writing in this open forum?

 

If that lawyer considered him so knowledgeable, what was the hitch for him to come forward to post his advice on the page of your question? This is an open forum, he should have the courage to get his own knowledge also tested on this forum openly.

 

Further, about his advice stating that “please send him to total amount of rent, per money order, from October 1995 till date…………………. to show you are ready and willing to pay the legal rent of the premises,” I would like to raise a very simple question for you to reply –

 

-         --  How would you be able to prove your intentions when your grandfather (up to 2005), your father or you (up to 2013) did not try even at a single occasion to pay any rent for all these 18 years, since 1995 or even 1996?

Ramesh Sawant (Business)     16 July 2013

Sir

I am here to take advise i am not here to insult or accuse any one.

If you your self see the post reply by Sudhir Kumar you will know your self what type of advise he is trying to give...As per law you cant increase rent with out the provision mention in mumbai rent control act.but here sudhir kumar was trying to provoking me i felt.I do appologies if i was wrong,i never intent to insult anyone,I in front of full forum appologis Shri Sudhir kumar for anything which may hurt him but my intention were never to insult or hurt him,I am Sorry dil se Sir :)

PS Dhingra Sir i am so not sure abt law but i have read mumbai rent act once so got little knowledge from there but i wud like second option/opinion from other expert too..

PS Dhingra ji i do know i am at fault but at the same place the landlord is at fault i feel,I may be wrong,

the landlord  son have never send me any legal notice  to pay the rent or any other paper or letter showing that he is now the rightfull owner of the property.

As early mention the same landlord son have file a case on the neibour shop who just have miss to pay 8 month rent @Rs.500 *(the neighbour shop the electricity and telephone line was cut due to non payment) but in our case all our due are paid on time we are using the shop as godown and we are showing legal supply business in our books of account.So must be for that reason he is not filling the case against us

As i mention when ever i try to meet landlord son he demand like anything,he sometime say that i have not paid rent from 1978 other time he say i have not paid from 1986 may be he himself dont have record of the rent which his father have collect from us,so for that reason he have not done a case on us as if he file a case on us claiming that we have not paid rent from 1986 -1992 we can provide the receipt of 1995 and the case wud be close and court wud direct us to pay the remaining amount as we still never know that the son himself is the rightful owner as he have never send any ulimation for the same.

Or if we take second assumtion why have he not file a case on us from last 18 years ,may be he know if he send us legal notice claiming that we have not paid the rent and  in the notice he will have to send the amount as per last rent receipt Rs.70 and additional increament by law. and if we are ready to pay the amount he wont be able to do anything .

this i feel from the below law 

https://housing.maharashtra.gov.in/Sitemap/housing/pdf/actsrules/THE_MAHARASHTRA_RENT_CONTROL_ACT.pdf

CHAPTER Ill 

RELIEF AGAINST FORFEITURE 

15. No ejectment ordinarily to he made if tenant pays or is ready and willing to pay

standard rent and permitted increases. 

(1) A landlord shall not be entitled to the recovery of possession of any premises so long 

as the tenant pays, or is ready and willing to pay, the amount of the, standard rent and 

permitted increases, if any, and observes and performs the other, conditions of the 

tenancy, in so far as they are consistent with the provisions of this Act. 

(2) No suit for recovery of possession shall be instituted by a landlord against the tenant 

on the ground of non-payment of the standard rent or permitted increases due, until the 

expiration of ninety days next after notice in writing of the demand of the standard rent or 

permitted increases has been served upon the tenant in the manner provided in section 

106 of the Transfer of Property Act, 1882. 

(3) No decree for eviction shall be passed by the court in any suit for recovery of 

possession on the ground of arrears of standard rent and permitted increases if, within a 

period of ninety days from the date of service of the summons of the suit, the tenant pays 

or tenders in court the standard rent and permitted increases then due together with 

simple interest on the amount of arrears at fifteen per cent per annum; and thereafter 

continues to pay or tenders in court regularly such standard rent and permitted increases 

till the suit is finally decided and also pays cost of the suit as directed by the court. 

(4) Pending the disposal of any suit, the court may, out of any amount paid or tendered by 

the tenant, pay to the landlord such amount towards the payment of rent or permitted 

increases due to him as the court thinks fit.


Please sir do advise us if we are wrong or what next we sud do to safeguard our self 

prabhakar singh (advocate)     23 July 2013

Dear Mr.Ramesh Sawant !

It is true that you came here for advice just to confirm opinion you received from Ld.Mehata.

Mr.Sudhir kumar holds views that  you understand  pro land lord and that triggered anger in

you because you have no tolerence to listen any advice that goes against you. While in fact

Mr.Sudhir Kumar has been helping you by showing poor points of your side of the case which

for defenit you wouldhaveto face if your case goes in court.Like  Coins Cases too have two sides.

Rent laws are no doubt pro tenants and curtail much of the rights of the landlord but simultaneously

they do not confer "execesses "on a tenant.paying rent is duty of tenant and when land lord does

not agree to receive tenant should serve him notice to tell in which his BANK a/c it should be deposited

and in case of his silence or non response M.O. should be sent and on refusal of M.O. an application to

deposit the same in court by tender should be moved to save from being called 'DEFAULTER' .

BUT INSTEAD OF UNDERSTANDING Mr.SUDIR'S ADVICE YOU HAVE USED INSULTING LANGUAGE

WHICH  ATTRACTS OFFENCE UNDER SECTION 501 OF IPC AS WELL AS A SUIT IN TORT FOR DAMAGES

FOR HIS DEMATION.

CAN YOU EXPLAINN  WHY SHOULD YOU NOT BE PROSECUTED AND SUED ?


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