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Tajobsindia (Senior Partner )     05 March 2012

Is it fair to award alimony to highly educated ex wife

Some dozen month’s back I stated in LCI that Western world is realizing that there is no more free lunches as far as Alimony payment from ex Husband goes and my then thought was based on Sweden and Benelux countries legislative model and today after almost a year same is being prudently lobbied in USA right now and very soon Alimony Laws will change in USA for sure and will be awarded to those errant ex wives who really need it. [USA is advance country where feminism movement started and they have mechanism in place to gauge NEEDS of ex wives for simple reason PERJURY laws there are very stringent unlike in India where each Family Law petition carries minimum 15% perjury without which it cannot be admitted is generic view]  



Now below is reproduction of news article for prudent readers and understand the ways the world is changing its free lunch dynamics and has gone beyond sari, sindoor and glycerin ………

 


In Age of Dual Incomes, Alimony Payers Prod States to Update Laws

 

MIAMI — In the waning days of this year’s legislative session, Florida lawmakers and advocacy groups are pushing to overhaul the state’s alimony law in a bid to better reflect today’s marriages and make the system less burdensome for the alimony payer.


Florida joins a grass-roots movement in a growing number of states that seeks to rewrite alimony laws by curbing lifelong alimony and alleviating the financial distress that some payers — still mostly men — say they face. The activists say the laws in several states, including Florida, unfairly favor women and do not take into account the fact that a majority of women work and nearly a third have college degrees.


The Florida House recently approved legislation that would make lifelong alimony more difficult to award and less onerous for the payer and, in the case of a remarriage, would place a new spouse’s income off-limits in awarding payments. Attention turns to the Senate, where the companion bill is less far-reaching.
Florida had already changed some provisions in alimony law two years ago.



Traditionally, alimony was designed to prevent divorced women who did not work and were less educated from falling into poverty. According to this view, the woman’s job was to raise children and run the household. Today, with both spouses often working, that situation is far less common. The question now is: What is fair alimony in the 21st century?



“I think that with my parents and certainly their parents, there were far less women in the work force,” said State Representative Ritch Workman, a
Melbourne Republican who is sponsoring the House bill. “The concept of a woman, after 15 years being married, to enter the work force and survive on her own was ludicrous. It was an obligation of the ex-husband to support her until she found another husband. I am sure that’s insulting to today’s women that they have to go from one husband to the next to be supported. It is not anti-woman to say that out loud.”



Last year, the legislature in Massachusetts, which had some of the country’s most antiquated
alimony laws, passed without opposition a measure to rewrite the laws and make them more equitable, following the recommendations of a special commission. The changes in Massachusetts, which were supported by the state bar association and women’s groups, have spurred alimony payers in other states to organize and begin lobbying lawmakers.



In
New Jersey, a resolution calling for the creation of a similar commission to study the state’s alimony laws has gained momentum. Connecticut lawmakers are drafting an alimony bill, with hearings expected in the next month, lobbyists say. And in Arkansas, the Carolinas, Oregon, West Virginia and other states, activists are setting up “Alimony Reform” groups, collecting stories about the hardships of long-term alimony payments and presenting them to lawmakers.

 


Dr. Bernard Perez, who was married for 20 years, said he had been ordered to pay his former wife 89 percent of his income.

 


Because laws vary greatly from state to state and grant judges broad discretion with few guidelines, alimony judgments diverge wildly, sometimes within the same jurisdiction. In Florida, marriages lasting longer than 20 years typically trigger lifetime alimony payments, but it is also not uncommon for the higher-income earner in shorter marriages to wind up paying permanent alimony, which can stretch for decades and end only after the payer dies or the former spouse remarries.



For many payers, reducing alimony is difficult, even when circumstances and incomes change. Appeals are often lost. The high cost of legal representation can make it impossible to continue battling in court. Payers say alimony should not deplete retirement funds, discourage women from working or remarrying, or sap the income of a new spouse.



If the standard of living must drop after a divorce, as it often does, the burden should be equally shared, they say
. In Florida, that is not always the case.



“It can strangle the person that is paying it,” said Alan Frisher, the founder of Florida Alimony Reform, an organization of 2,000 members, several of whom testified recently at legislative committee hearings. “Oftentimes, we can’t afford to pay that amount of alimony. It can provide a disincentive for the receiver to ever go back to work, to make more money or remarry. I don’t think
anybody should have to be an indentured servant for the rest of their lives.”



But Barry Finkel, a family law lawyer in
Fort Lauderdale, said the bill would heedlessly chisel at judges’ discretion.


There certainly is a national trend against long-term alimony,” he said, “but the answer is not to create these roadblocks and hurdles because there is an unhappy payer.”


Cynthia Hawkins DeBose, a law professor at
Stetson University in Gulfport, said the bill, and others like it, could remedy some inequities of permanent alimony, like protecting a new spouse’s income and ensuring that an ex-wife does not live in a $700,000 house while her husband lives in a $180,000 one. Former spouses, she said, should be permitted to move on and not be tethered forever.

 



“Over all, I’m mixed about this,” she said. “I don’t think alimony should be welfare for the middle class, but I’m fearful of the tail wagging the dog.”

 



In
Florida, as in most states, the alimony system works mostly as it should. Ninety-five percent of those who divorce settle out of court, and judges often make fair decisions, legal experts say.

 

 

 

Dr. Perez said his alimony payments had nearly bankrupted him.

 


David L. Manz, the chairman of the Florida Bar Family Law Section, said his organization opposed the House bill because it was too loosely written and would remove too much judicial discretion. In remedying the plight of a small number of men, Mr. Manz said, the bill could leave more divorced women vulnerable. He said he was negotiating to change parts of the bill.

 


Even today, Mr. Manz said, divorce is more likely to hurt women. They are still the ones who typically give up their jobs to focus on raising children. Even when they do not give up jobs, their child-rearing responsibilities can sidetrack their careers. Returning to jobs after long absences is difficult.

 


“For every guy, there is a wife or former wife who got the short end of the stick,” Mr. Manz said. “Look at the standard of living of most people in a long-term marriage: divorced men’s standard of living goes up, and the women’s goes down. That happens every day.”

 


“We are not in favor of disenfranchising someone who has given up her career,” he added. “What you are hearing about is a very vocal, persuasive minority.”

 


The men, and the few women, in
Florida Alimony Reform agree they are a minority. But they say the injustice in the system is no less gut-wrenching. They say judges’ attempts to follow the law and maintain, after divorce, the same standard of living a couple shared in marriage is mathematically impossible. Former wives often benefit from this, they say.

 


Dr. Jose A. Aleman-Gomez, a
Cape Coral cardiologist who was married for 21 years, said he must pay $50,000 a year, or about 25 percent of his salary, to his ex-wife, a practicing dentist with a solid income. And Dr. Bernard R. Perez, a Tampa eye surgeon with throat cancer who was married for 20 years, said he had been ordered to pay his former wife 85 percent of his income; for the last three years, he has lived in his brother’s garage and is near bankruptcy, he said.

 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Jose A. Aleman-Gomez said his former wife had a solid income as a dentist.

 

 


Each man was also ordered in court to carry a life insurance policy naming his former wife as sole beneficiary.



The aggrieved men say they are not opposed to alimony. They are opposed to alimony payments with no end in sight. In their view, alimony should be awarded for long enough to allow a former spouse to get an education, find a decent job or rehabilitate a career or, when both spouses agree, until children reach a certain age. The Florida bill would allow exceptions, like older women who cannot easily find decent jobs.



“I am maintaining her standard of living but not mine,” Dr. Aleman-Gomez said of his former wife. He said he was paying off $70,000 in lawyer’s fees. “A person with a doctorate degree, with a six-figure income, should not be receiving alimony,” he said. “Alimony is for the people who need it.”

 

 


Link:
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/us/alimony-payers-prod-states-to-update-divorce-laws.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&hp

 

 

Importance of News in Indian context:

Unbiased readers should re-read above lobbying views and put their straight forward
AYES and or NAYES to below second ever family law forum pool question without much to add as the news article is self explanatory having balanced views from both sides of lobbying groups.


Now a Poll (in family law):-


Is it fair to award alimony to highly educated ex wife in India?

 


-
        
AYES


-    NAYES



Learning

 22 Replies


(Guest)

Ayes..
 

Roshni B.. (For justice and dignity)     05 March 2012

Originally posted by :Tajobsindia
"

Is it fair to award alimony to highly educated ex wife in India?
 
"

 

It is fair to award it,if she is unemployed,even though educated.

 

 

See,i replied in 1 sentence only;)

Tajobsindia (Senior Partner )     05 March 2012

 

Originally posted by :Roshni B..
" See,i replied in 1 sentence only "

 

"See world over Law follows changing society and this news is recent illustration from a developed country". If one goes beyond thinking sari, sindoor and glycerin then see what to expect as my 1 sentence rebuttal ;)

2 Like

Ranee....... (NA)     05 March 2012

Agree with Zeeshan.

bhima balla (none)     06 March 2012

The movement ,thankfully, is spreading. There have been some responses by feminists about the 'economic benefits' of marriage etc. New theories are formulated regularly to justify maintenance and permanent alimony. But the fact is, none have so far explained why a man needs to pay alimony. Explanations that, this is due to her being a 'wife' although divorced,are ludicrous.. Such nonsense does not hold water. Divorce should sever such obligations. It is true that west has dual income familes which are increasing everyday. In India, women with degrees are voluntarily incapacitating themselves-neither contributing to family's finance nor to society. The idea that she should be maintained at the same lifestyle as she had enjoyed, is ridiculous. The only argument from  the society's perspective is to prevent immediate destitution of the divorced woman-allowing her to get alimony for sufficient duration to  get retrained and sustain herself. This is to be provided, only, where husband has obligated the wife to quit job and maintain the household. In this scenario one can say that the wife is disadvantaged.

Alimony/maintenance is legalized slavery of divorced men. The man pays taxes to government and also to his wife! In India, atleast, neither the government nor wife is obligated to do anything in return!

The 'man' has been successful even before marriage.The woman married him because of this success. She contributes next to nothing and then takes away his hard earned money AND THAT TOO FOR LIFE? This is nothing but slavery or bonded labor of divorced men-and not responsibility/duty as portrayed in the current law.

2 Like

querryno.zerozeroseven (zerozeroseven)     07 March 2012

What U said is 100 percent CORRECT

The 'man' has been successful even before marriage.The woman married him because of this success. She contributes next to nothing and then takes away his hard earned money AND THAT TOO FOR LIFE? This is nothing but slavery or bonded labor of divorced men-and not responsibility/duty as portrayed in the current law.

 

In our country HMA is based upon MIANTAINING THE INSTITUTE OF  MARRIAGE AT ANY COST. Thats is why the simple Divorce case is dragged for years and years in it filed by one party. Indian society and judiciary is stuck with old-fashined tradition and family values, which are not practical in modern times. In some cases wives and her family members are not aware of maintenance.divorce laws when the dispute is at its infancy. During that period if any wife appraches a divorce lawyer, he will frist ask her "do you want to get separated (he will not mnetion about the deivorce first) or go back?" Of course when she is MAD at her husband she will surely say that  I want to get separated (thinking that he is talking about divorce) becoz in some cases she is young enough to re-marry after divorce. But lawyer will mis-guide her by advising her to stay separate (not giving divorce) and demand maintenance of very high amount from her (already successful) husband like you mentioned above showing him miilionaire and also simultenously advicing wife not agree for Divorce by mutual consent at any cost. And by chance if husband has filed for divorce just to speed up the matter then not only maintenance is granted by the hon. judge but if the divorce takes place after many many years the husband is asked to pay his fortune to his wife either as a one time alimony (if the wife is too young and has planned to re-marry) or monthly maintenance If wife is of middle or old age where by she can not re-marry or does not want to re-marry keeping in mind of regular cash-flow from a rich ex-husband)  till she dies or remarry again. In some cases after fighting the maintenance and/or divorce case life of both husband and wife has been already ruined and there is charm left to re-marry. Some thck skinned wives do enjoy on husband's money but bthey dont have social respectibilty and die in lonelyness with curse of he ex-husband and his family members. So What you said is true - In india most of the mairrages (mainly arrange marriiages done on Internet/News Paper matrimonials where there are evry possibities of hiding facts from either side) MONITORY GAIN after marriage or After DIVORCE is kept in mind mainly by Bride and her family.

If Indian society and judiciary is so much concerned about the family values then there should be an AMMENDMENT in HMA that AFTER MARRIAGE A COUPLE HAS TO STAY TOGETHER FOR FIRST 5 YEARS (instead of ONE year) and under no circumstances they can live sepatare or get divorce and wife can not claim for maintenance/alimony if she leaves the husband's house for petty reasons. If at all there is any atrocity from Husband or his family members to his wife then they should be procecuted and punished.till 5 years are completed.

Reasons :

1. Most of the Hindu couples in  India never get chance to stay separate from thier parents or brother / sisters for variuos reasons.  In many divorce cases there are more family related problems rather than personal problems between Husband and wife. The main reason being lack of Financial Freddom for the Bridegroom. He is not equipped to buy a separate home when he gets married. 

2. After 5 years, Husband/Wife will be in better position to understand each other and family members. Also if there are children then they will establish stronger bond within family.

3. In the due course, if required, the husband can buy a new house by savings or taking housing. If wife is also working then they can plan it in better ways. By this time children have also grown-up under their Grand-Parents supervision and love.

4. If there are more brothers in the house then there will be room for the next brother to get married and get settled.

So Everybody will get benifit of Joint Family as weel as Neuclear Family. 

Remember !!!  We can not adopt old-fashined Indian Hindu Laws and Culture nor Westernised Marriage Laws in India. There has to be some middle way to keep the Divorce Rate Low or Nil.

















  

 





1 Like

naren (Consulltant)     07 March 2012

@Roshini,

In case husband is educated but unemployed, maintenace should be 0. but as decided in many cases, maintnance even if husband is unemployed is still awarded. Why this discrimination.

Ranee....... (NA)     07 March 2012

Originally posted by :jons smith3
"
it is fair to award alimony to highly educated ex wife.

 

 

 




hotel davenport


 

 
"

this is not a free advertisement site!!

**Victim** (job)     07 March 2012

Originally posted by :Ranee.......
"



Originally posted by :jons smith3



"


it is fair to award alimony to highly educated ex wife.

 

 

 




hotel davenport


 

 

"




this is not a free advertisement site!!
"

@ Ranee you sound as if this site belongs to you let admin/moderator take care of such advertisement i am sure everyone on this site are adults you don't have to point what is to be done and what is not to be done ?

1 Like

Ranee....... (NA)     07 March 2012

 

@Victim

 

 

@ Ranee you sound as if this site belongs to you let admin/moderator take care of such advertisement i am sure everyone on this site are adults you don't have to point what is to be done and what is not to be done ?

 

 

if so why did you react?,,Are you not adult?


(Guest)
Originally posted by :Tajobsindia
"
 




Originally posted by :Roshni B..



"

See,i replied in 1 sentence only

"




 

"See world over Law follows changing society and this news is recent illustration from a developed country". If one goes beyond thinking sari, sindoor and glycerin then see what to expect as my 1 sentence rebuttal

"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

tajobs aap larki ho na?

 

aapne larki ki tasveer lagayi hai.islie pucha...abhi tak mai sochta tha ki aap ek aadmi ho....

thanks for finally letting us know u r a female..

**Victim** (job)     07 March 2012

Originally posted by :Ranee.......
"
 


@Victim

 

 

@ Ranee you sound as if this site belongs to you let admin/moderator take care of such advertisement i am sure everyone on this site are adults you don't have to point what is to be done and what is not to be done ?


 

 


if so why did you react?,,Are you not adult?
"

@ Ranee AKA Utpala i don't know if you know but everybody here does their own advertisement if you don't know what it is let me elaborate more on "WHAT IS CALLED ADVERTISEMENT ?"


---------   IF A WOMEN UPLOADS THEIR KIDS PIC ON THEIR PROFILE THINKING TO GAIN SYMPATHY FROM OTHER MEMBERS AND GETTING IN SOMEONE'S BUSINESS FOR NO REASON ASSUMING THAT WHATEVER SHE SAYS WILL BE TAKEN AS SOMETHING WRITTEN ON STONE THEN I AM SORRY IF SHE THINKS LIKE THAT BUT THAT IS SO CALLED "ADVERTISEMENT"


------- IF A LAWYER'S PROFILE APPEARS WITH PHONE NUMBER OR EMAIL ADDRESS THEN THAT IS CALLED "ADVERTISEMENT" -------------> QUESTION IS WOULD YOU STOP THEM SAYING THAT "THIS IS NOT A ADVERTISEMENT SITE ?" I GUESS NOT COZ YOU WILL GET A VERY GOOD REPLY FROM THEM ..........


so my suggestion to you is let admin/moderator deal with such issues and not to stop any members participating in this site since this is a public site not our home .......




Tajobsindia (Senior Partner )     07 March 2012

Originally posted by :**Victim**
" @ Ranee AKA Utpala i don't know if you know but everybody here does their own advertisement if you don't know what it is let me elaborate more on "WHAT IS CALLED ADVERTISEMENT ?"


---------   IF A WOMEN UPLOADS THEIR KIDS PIC ON THEIR PROFILE THINKING TO GAIN SYMPATHY FROM OTHER MEMBERS AND GETTING IN SOMEONE'S BUSINESS FOR NO REASON ASSUMING THAT WHATEVER SHE SAYS WILL BE TAKEN AS SOMETHING WRITTEN ON STONE THEN I AM SORRY IF SHE THINKS LIKE THAT BUT THAT IS SO CALLED "ADVERTISEMENT"
"

 

@ Victim


Gyan 1: Pictures of children should not be uploaded because it makes a woman look like she's desperate to find a daddy for the kiddies.
Re.: https://christina-gregoire.suite101.com/online-dating-after-divorce-the-best-photos-a124327



Gyan 2:
Single mothers who put photos of their pre-school kids on their social networking web pages are creating a happy hunting ground for pedophiles.”.
Re.:
https://www.darndivorce.com/single-moms-on-facebook-and-myspace-warned-about-pre-schooler-pix-online/

Rx; OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) time pass female writer may write off above gyan as unsolicited observation!

Reasoning: Never give logics to a woman.
 


BTW, @ Victim I am aware you are prudent adult among us and may agree to above 2 cents
J

1 Like

**Victim** (job)     07 March 2012

@ Tajobsindia,


Agreed Sir.....