who to vote ????

Dear Zeeshan

This is not a forum to advice on such matters. However you being a member of LCI, I would like to request you please contact Mr. Shahnawaz Hussain, Mr. Muktar Abas Naqvi & Ms. Nazma Hepdulla to learn why they are in BJP since long. Ask Dr. APJ, who made his the President of India. You will certainly get the answer.

Ok , tell me any other website where only decent & educated person are available to answer & discuss. Is it

facebook ? 

Mr. Shahnawaz Hussain, Mr. Muktar Abas Naqvi & Ms. Nazma Hepdulla , they are earning from it.  and is not more than 0.5 %. 

Why to forgot modi , abvani, vajpaye who has direct role in spreading communism ? They bluntly curse islam & muslims. If you got chance watch documentary ,"ram ke naam ."

also Is BJP a non-corrupt party ?

Dear Zeeshan please use your human consciense from a neutral position to decide whom to vote. Disbelievers and idolators are also children of same God, aren't they? Why is God so partial with them and want them to be tortured and murdered? Will you vote for the party that supports the following or opposes the following?

9:123
Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.

9:5
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them

8:12
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.

9:29
Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior"

2:193
Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah

14:17
Before him is Hell; and he shall be made to drink boiling water.

9:23
O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love Infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

47:4
When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.

3:28
Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves.

@ ravi 

You remind me of my wife. She also dig-out blames in me like you in islam . Like there is nothing good in me & islam.

Read my query first. 1st of all I ask who to vote ? I don't want to heat up the hindu-muslim argument here. You are such type of people who bend healthy discussion to wrong way & spoil generations. 

"taang adana zaroori hai ?"

2nd , You have search only bad things out of islam. How can you find good things when you only searched for bad things ?

I can't  defence right now as I am not prepare for your above blames. As you have done research in finding ill-things in islam. I also say a lot bad about hindusim. But as I am young educated indian want to leave all these things behind.

An example of my findings is here. Ram samudre view in following post.

https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/Crime-against-women-on-the-rise-in-Delhi-India-Today-37730.asp

One thing I have to say there is a difference between ," kafir" & "Hindu" or "christian" etc.

PLEASE NOTE- India is a golden bird during mughal period. Not before that & not after that.

Better argue anywhere else , here topic is whom to vote. 

Your miss-representation of islam & lack of knowledge cannot make me vote BJP.

JAI HIND

good going on.

where only decent & educated person are available to answer & discuss

---   mr zeeshan you are at the right place of lci.

it is very difficult to answer,

how one decide, vote to whom and why?

zeeshan,

on this plateform whenever i read your views i find a unique and support ,

but to see this one i shoked you write down being MUSLIM  u r not vote to BJP.

it is not a good answer from just like yr side !

however it's 100% depends to you that whom to vote u?

we can't even suggest u ,it's yr absoulet right!

salaambalekum!

GOOD  NIGHT!

dear zeeshan,

you have raised a very, very important and very fundamental question of politics.  I quote:

"I hear many a time that it's we the people who choose government thus it's we who are responsible for corruption."

since independence, we have been voting to political parties of various colours and hues and think that we have been electing the governments.  but after election, whatever political party we elected, we were always in receiving end.  we have to vote either congress or bjp, either bsp or sp, either rjd or jd (u), either tdp or congress, either dmk or aiadmk.  we faithfully vote to either this party or that party.  it appears on the face of it, we have a lot of choice in voting, but in reality,  we do not have any choice.  all of them are corrupt, they are fundamentalist, they have no sensitivity towards economically poorer sections of the society, they have only one aim - to serve the richest classes of the country but get elected by the poorest classes of the society.  in india only such political party can come into power which can get the confidence of the poorest sections of the society, as they are in majority and their per centage almost all touches to 80% and their vote is important to come to power.  they get votes from us and serve the richest people.  when we criticise them, they put blame on us "you elected us, you face the tune".  for us it is hobson's choice.  it means,  there appears to be choice but no choice.  poor farmers elected congress government in Maharashtra and at centre.  In vidarbha, they are committing suicide as they failed to pay paltry loans to banks.  it was either NDA or UPA, there is no respite to poor farmers.  similarly about unorganized workers.  they hardly get hundred rupees for a day.  they have to work 7 days of week.  the street vendors etc. come into this category.  but, in fact, they elected the governments at centre and state but they are facing the miseries from their own governments.

eitghty percent of country's wealth is in the hands of about 52 families.  the rest, 20 per cent is distributed disproportionately in the citizens of india less 52 families.  these 52 families, whatever government you elect, get their work done for them.  either it is congress or bjp or some other party.  they have to work for these 52 families but pretend that they are working for the poor people.

same is the condition even in most developed countries.  in USA, democrats or republicans, they work only for the richest classes of that society.  in U.K. conservatives and labour.  two party system throttles people's democratic rights.

coming back to India, we proudly claim ourselves a secular country. we also declare ourselves as socialist, democratic republic.  but you see the fate of religious minority communities.  muslims are the poorest sections of the society.  educational facilities and employment opportunities are not reaching them.  just giving them the right to practice their religious practices is not true secular system.  it is your duty as the elected government that all the beneficial measures of the society have to reach the religious minorities.  read sachhar committee report.  how, after the independence, the muslim minorities have been deprived of basic rights of good living conditions, clean drinking water, decent residential accommodation, proper medical facilities, proper schooling, equal employment opportunities etc.  it is what this congress government was doing for these years.  but, you see the falsehood of bjp, when most of the muslims are living in deplorable conditions, the bjp says that muslims are appeased by congress.  its parent organisation RSS spreads falsehood that muslims by not implementing family planning want to multiply their population and some day take away india from hindus.  how blatant lies? not only muslims, no secular person will vote BJP, which has got a person like narendra modi in its party ranks.   it is the character of our two national parties.  they get elected by the poor but they serve the rich.  if these governments are corrupt, they are corrupt for the sake of serving the rich.

by voting either for congress or for bjp, we are not going to share any of their sins.  we are not responsible for their misdeeds.  actually, we are waiting for such a political party, which will work for the poor in thought and in deed.     

"You remind me of my wife. She also dig-out blames in me like you in islam . Like there is nothing good in me & islam."

Only God knows if your wife was telling a truth. You are unnecessarily getting angry. Where I have blamed you or Islam? I have only asked you to use your conscience as a human being from a neutral position and presented the facts as they are. Now it is upto you if you want to accept the facts or not. Tell me if I have written or claimed anything that is false?

"Read my query first. 1st of all I ask who to vote ? I don't want to heat up the hindu-muslim argument here. You are such type of people who bend healthy discussion to wrong way & spoil generations. "taang adana zaroori hai ?""

I have only answered your question. In that I asked you to apply your conscience as a human being from neutral position before voting. Have I said something false?

"2nd , You have search only bad things out of islam. How can you find good things when you only searched for bad things ?"

I never said anything bad. I only presented facts as they are. Are you saying that there are both good and bad things in Islam just like any other religion and all this is not a "word of God"? If this is what you are saying then I apreciate your honesty to accept the facts. This world needs honest people like you.

"I can't defence right now as I am not prepare for your above blames. As you have done research in finding ill-things in islam. I also say a lot bad about hindusim. But as I am young educated indian want to leave all these things behind."

What defence can one take against indefensible ideas except give some lame excuses or justifications? Where have I blamed anyone? You are jumping to conclusions unneccessarily. I only presented the facts as they are.

"An example of my findings is here. Ram samudre view in following post. https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/Crime-against-women-on-the-rise-in-Delhi-India-Today-37730.asp"

First of all I do not give much importance to views of Ram Samudre becuase of his well known biases and prejudices. He has only one goal of following his political agenda whether right or wrong. Since you provided one link, I also provide you some links to read. Please read the following to know how women are systemetically subjected to crime, abused and tortured(all with religious sanction):

1) https://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/index.htm

2) https://www.martinspribble.com/2010/06/12/crimes_against_women_and_children_in_the_name_of_islam/

3) https://www.iran-bulletin.org/political_islam/punishmnt.html

4) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_domestic_violence

"One thing I have to say there is a difference between ," kafir" & "Hindu" or "christian" etc."

One thing I have to say that there is NO difference between "kafir" & "Hindu" or "christian" etc. because they are human beings first then anything else. This is the fundamental difference between your thinking and my thinking and hence the problem.

"PLEASE NOTE- India is a golden bird during mughal period. Not before that & not after that."

Golden Age for people of India was during the rule by Gupta Dynasty not during Mughal rule. Mughal rule was nothing but "Golden Age" for Islamic terrorism, tyranny and oppression. Jihadist Babur invaded and terrorised entire India. Thousands of places of worship destroyed, women raped, enslaved, millions of people killed. What a golden begining for a "golden" rule by terrorism! People of India do not ever need such "golden rules". People of Afghanistan and Pakistan are already enjoying such "Golden rules" today, but we do not need such "golden rules" to spread in India. Entire world has seen the attempt to begin the "Golden rule" on 26/11.

Writer Fernand Braudel wrote in A History of Civilizations (Penguin 1988/1963, p. 232-236), Islamic rule in India as a "colonial experiment" was "extremely violent", and "the Muslims could not rule the country except by systematic terror. Cruelty was the norm – burnings, summary executions, crucifixions or impalements, inventive tortures. Hindu temples were destroyed to make way for mosques. On occasion there were forced conversions. If ever there were an uprising, it was instantly and savagely repressed: houses were burned, the countryside was laid waste, men were slaughtered and women were taken as slaves."

Refer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus#In_the_Mughal_empire

After his formal accession in Delhi (5th June 1659) he posed as a defender of Islam who would rule according to the directions of the Shariat, and with the advice of the Clerics or Ulama for whom the doctrines, rules, principles and directives, as laid down and interpreted in the 7th and 8th century Arabia, Persia and Iraq, were inviolable and unchangeable in all conditions, in all countries, and for all times to come.

The number of such ruthless acts of Aurangzeb make a long list but here only a few have been mentioned, supported by evidence, mostly contemporary official records of Aurangzeb's period and by such credible Persian sources as Maasir-i-Alamgiri.

In obedience to the Quranic injunction, he reimposed Jizyah on the Hindus on 2nd April 1679 (Exhibit No. 16)

For details refer https://www.aurangzeb.info/ especially the exhibits on the lower right hand side of the page.

"Better argue anywhere else , here topic is whom to vote."

Yes that is exactly what I told you, to whom to vote by using your consciense afer evaluating the facts.

"Your miss-representation of islam & lack of knowledge cannot make me vote BJP."

Again you are getting defensive and jumping to conclusions, where I have said anything against you or Islam. Tell me if that I have written is not what is actually written? Vote as per your consciense, who can compel anyone to vote for BJP or any other party? Also don't forget to check the past record of Congress in playing double game of fooling Muslims.

by reading medieval period history, about gupta kingdom and babar, aurangazeb rule, we cannot and shall not vote to any particular party at present.  the fact is that muslims are 18 to 19 per cent of population, christians are about 3 to 4 per cent of population, similarly the S.C.s are about 14 % of population and S.T.s are about 6 to 7 per cent of population.  if we see the percentage in government jobs as well as in private organisations, we cannot see such representation amongst these sections.  the people belonging this section are deprived of basic human rights - clean drinking water, adequate food, good housing facility, minimum educational  and health facilities.  they are deprived of all these things.  so they cannot compete with the advanced sections of the society in merit examinations.  those who harp about merit and criticise against reservation forget the simple fact, these people are not given sufficient opportunity and level playing field.  another aspect, that amongst our population about 50% ae women.  are they enjoying50% positions in the jobs?  How many women judges are there in supreme court and high courts.  we should vote only to such political parties, which assures us true representation and opportunities to every section of the society.  at present, both the national parties do not fulfill such requirements.  they are corrupt and cunning and serve the super 52 familieis getting votes from all of us.  we are not accountable for their misdeeds, even though we vote them to come to power as we have no choice. 

Thanks for your interest, 

Ok tell me why I vote BJP ? Just b'coz It's the only option available ? This make BJP liable for my vote ?

Isn't what anna & ramdev doing is the work of BJP ? He is in opposition & most powerful. I said," hamaam me sab nange hain."

Thanks HEMA.

@ ravi

Hema ji has many answers of your ill-logics. "ku-tarks".

Other than god, me & judge also knows the truth that how much true is my wife. You are no-one to explain. 

One thing I want to say. This is what generally happens with us. Just by reading our name/religion people start talking of terrisom, goat killing, veil of women / backward ness. etc etc. No matter the person is how much educated & broadminded . Person like you make him orthodox , rigid & blunt. He start searching answers of your blames. You forgot that all these irregularities exists in every religion but with diffrent name & type. Even in hinduism.(bali/narbali/ghoonghat etc.) Even today Narbali exists in india.

   It doesn't matter either you are agree with ramsamudre's view or not. But what he is saying is a matter of thought.  

People like you judge islam by it's 25-30 year old history & start shouting leaving it's 4000 year of past . If I write here ill doings of hinduism (like you have done for islam) whole website become my enemy. b'coz majority is of hinduism.  

                  There is a common practice on earth , he who won the battle people make him right. Like AMERICA . America has his personal diffrences with hitler , musolini, laden. Etc. & we (whole world) look at them as as criminal.s No matter what we have to with it or not. World start cursing him. 

                  You tell me who is a bigger terrorist ? Laden or bush ? Bush kill more innocent than laden. Did you ever heard anyone cursing BUSH ? Why only laden is cursed ? B'coz he is an enemy of america. Why to forgot hiroshima/nagasaki ? ban in india when we make atom bomb ? There are lot of examples. 

                     Ok , forgot AMERICA, take example of kauravs. If we look deeply kaurav seems to be more right. ( can explain you later) but as pandav won, people says that they are right .  I have many examples. But I am not here to make enemies. 

And for terrisom in islam. I want to ask where is terroism most spread ? In south asia , Why ? INDIA has problem with every neighbour . 

I am not blaming INDIA. ( It's my motherland) But something wrong is happening.  America prepare afganistan against russia & it's root spread till INDIA. Also kashmir is an issue. We think we are right & they think they are.  You know maoist kill more people indian than so called " muslim terrorist" do ....... Any data of them ? 

And regards your data. I have more complex data about irregularity in hinduism /cristinatiey etc. (just google them) . But what's the logic of all these things ? Data can be modified according to your need.  There are many many islamic countries other than south asian countries who are doing a lot good.  Like dubai, Uae etc. Can't you see those ? 

You can't see those b'coz you are in search of only bad things in islam.

You are one type of people who argue without any issue ignoring current topic.  I can write more harsh than you. But this is a public forum & I don't want to argue & make majority my enemy. I have answer of all your sayings. There is a saying, "kam padalikha anpad se jyada khatarnak hota hai."

zeeshan,

 why i say to you ............ vote to BJP?

YAAR  vote is your right!

yr vote you  are free to vote to any party , who is compelling you to vote particular party!

jabadasti aap puchrahe ho, fir jab BJP ke baare main baat suru hogi to kamiyan nikali jayengi!

sahi hai na!

good debate is going on. 

Vote is the right of the voter. The voter is having right to elect a person his choise. 

In democracy negative vote should be there in the ballot paper / E.V.M. 

when no body is interested to the voter he can choose that column to express his feelings that there is no person is capable for that political post [ i.e. M.L.A. or M.P. e.t.c. ].

As well as there should be recall system, those who are not implementing the manefesto of their party.