Notice period for 3 months & obligation on me that i try to theft in office premises
Kalpesh Nagvekar
(Querist) 24 April 2012
This query is : Resolved
Hi My self Kalpesh Nagvekar working in Apollo Lavasa Hospital as a Exe-Marketing, on my Appointment letter they have mentioned 3 months notice period but when I replied them that I'll pay them in cheque or cash. By questions are as follows:
1. I'm having 1 year Probation period if I m in probation period I can leave the organization serve the notice of 1 month?
2. If I want to pay them I have to pay basic salary only or they can ask me to pay Gross salary?
3.During this they logged a incident against me that I try to theft official confidence but that time my duty time was over to fight for this to whom I can contact?
Devajyoti Barman
(Expert) 24 April 2012
Without seeing the terms of the joh contract it is difficult to advise more on it.
All the points you have raised would be guided by the terms of the contract.
Kalpesh Nagvekar
(Querist) 24 April 2012
In notice period they have mentioned in Lieu of Probation period or confirmation you have to serve 90 days notice period or pay in lieu of notice period.
And they are tring to harrase me & put a blame on me that I have try to theft official confidences but the this event take place after duty hours.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 24 April 2012
So the event did take place even if beyond office hours. Please eleborate what was the incident.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 25 April 2012
Too many question without fact?????????????
How can one answer????????
Kalpesh Nagvekar
(Querist) 25 April 2012
Let me explain:
On 17/04/2012 My duty was over on 5:30PM so I sign on muster that I leave the office premises and that time Hospital security Incharge duty was over. So he offered me "Sir can we go for Tea" I said Sure the Tea House is on 15 min walking distance.
When we wait for tea that time I told him: "I came to know that you will be father at anytime" so Security Guy said: "Yes sir my wife is pregnant but date is 07 May 2012 given by doctor.
So I asked him about the party so he said sure Sir we will not drink tea will go and Take some drinks I said No but he said " After all you are leaving the organization So I unable to give you the PARTY"
So I walked with him ahead from that point to beer shopee is on 15min more on walking distance. Near around we start drinking at 6:00PM and we finished it off near around 7:10PM.
I m residencing near to hospital and our lunch, dinner are available in hospital but we have to present there so I thought I drunk and I m so hungry I'll go to my workplace and have my food and I'll move to my room. I reached to hospital (office) near about 7:20PM. Then I ask on duty security guy key of my cabin he said he dont have may be the keys are with Housekeeping guys. I said "OK" I'll search that guy and I'll took the key.
Then I went to search that guy & that finance department is near to my cabin I call in the place and ask for person "Any one is here" I found that no one is on 2nd Floor so I came down then I found the 2 Housekeeping guys are present at ground floor So I asked them about the key. One of them handedover my cabin key near about 7:40PM. After that I went to security guy to tell him that I found my key please dont search anymore. But that time no one is present in there cabin. So I moved out from that area and I went to place got my food coupon and moved out the premises after finishing my DInner.
Next day Security Guy told that Key was misplaced from its place for several minutes.
And The HR dept head and mine is cross for several reason (36 ka akada).
So here I m attaching the incident report and written statement which she get from the others.
Please give your views on it...
And please help me....
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 26 April 2012
It appears from report that there was prpblem with cash bod. Pleas tell if this si true
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 26 April 2012
cannot help those who go to working place after drink.
In alcoholic condition what u know what u did:: y others shd not take advantage & teach u lesson for free lunch?? NO LUNCH IS FREE, U HV TO PAY 4 IT
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 28 April 2012
My dear Appollo are running an internationally renowedned chain of state of art Hospitals. They cannot run such a huge enterprise if they tolerate what has happened.
Mr Shroff is fully correct in his views. Merely by being found drunk beyond duty hours, puts you on receiving end, everybody has every reason to believe what is alleged. Although onus to prove generally rests on the management in an Inqiry but in this case practically it is on you.
Your query says that “my duty time was over ” . This means that you are sure that you have a right to be present in office off duty, drunk and should not be held responsible for whatever you do. It is difficult to believe that hospital may be offering free three times meals to any employee but even if they do they are not supplying in in room where you do duty. Hospital staff includes OPD/OT/cleaning sweeping/lab/pathology staff and certainly they cannot be expected to ear where they work. Certainly there may be some caferia type place where you can eat free (or subsidized meals) but this still does not entitle one to be found drunk in premises.
You have to remember :-
(i) Three months notice clause is for termination but not for dismissal due to a misconduct.
(ii) Misconduct has to be proved by an inquiry where you can be represented by an expert of your choice.
(iii) It is not a criminal trial and 100% evidence will not be necessary and circumstantial evidence against you will be enough.
You have not disclosed what post trade you are. You told that “And The HR dept head and mine is cross for several reason (36 ka akada).” This itself indicates that you are a problematic employee and your own story indicates what you happened on the fateful day :-
• The key of account deptt was deposit with security.
• Thereafter you got off duty.
• Thereafter you took security incharge out for a drink (not across the road).
• Thereafter you consumed intoxicant
• Thereafter you came back to hospital
Even this much behavior of being found in premises drunk after duty is sufficient fro a person to be unfit to be retained in pious profession like hospital
Then happened as under :-
• You were seen running helter skelter to locate a key.
• You went to accounts department
• You found accounts department open at odd hours and reported to none.
• Then two employees reported some noise in account room
• You were seen there.
• The cash box is reported tempered
• The witnesses did not disclose anyone else to have seen at account deptt
The HR head cannot be expected to keep his ears closed if such matter is reported. The statement of all concerned is handwritten in the language that they understand and you can cross-examine them in the inquiry.
Kalpesh Nagvekar
(Querist) 30 April 2012
1.Mr. Shroff 8% alcohol is sufficient to lost his Control?
2.As per sudhir Kumar are right at some point but there are no any policy of organisation where says that after drink you are not allowed to enter into premises.
3.There are no any financial loss.
4.Organisation have to call police.
5.At the time of Incidence I was not present in the office premises.
6.Here question is of Theft not drink and come into the Working premises.
7.After duty hours security Incharge is like a simple man without his charge of Security.
8.All keys are in security custody in locker.
9.When Security Incharge or any security persons leave the office premises they handedover the key to next duty persons.
10.There are duplicate bunch of all keys is lying with Housekeeping Incharge for washing & cleaning purpose.
11.The Housekeeping Incharge is staying in hospital 24x7.
12.On incidence day other working staff was present.
13.After taking key from Housekeeping I seat in emergency area to watch IPL match with other collegues.
14.In mail communication HR-Executive & Administrator wrote the do not take any statement from Security Incharge who was with me & He even not took written from other Office staff who saw out of the premises during the period.
15. My major concern is if HR-Executive can take written statement who saw during that period in office premises or near to Account to dept. why she cant take written statement that I found out of the hospital premises during this incidence.
16.And as per timing you consider security call was of 7:10 to 7:15PM during that period I enter into premises where the incidence already taken place in my absentism.
17.In Bablu statement he wrote that he found me that I was coming down from Second floor but that time he was at Reception area where I took key from him.
So how he can see me That I was coming from Second floor. because there are 2 barriers to enter into reception area...
Guest
(Expert) 30 April 2012
Dear Kalpesh,
You should not assume that the experts here were the eye-witnesses to your above noted 17 points. All you need is to counter effectively the charge leveled against you by solid proof in your favour, which can corroborate your aforesaid 17 points.
So far as the point of not allowing you in office premises in drunken state, the administration has to prohibit any one in drunken state to maintain office/ workplace decorum, more so when it is the question of a hospital, and that too when some one tries to enter office premises after office hours.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 06 May 2012
My dear you have to understand the gravity of the situation taking benefit of the seasoned advise of the experts here instead of arguing with them who desire no pleasure from your plight.
Apollo are a big chain of Hospital of international repute. They cannot afford to have lax service conditions and lax discipline.
Departmental inquiries do not require 100% evidence. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient which is predominantly against you.
Your questions are commented as under –
1.Mr. Shroff 8% alcohol is sufficient to lost his Control?
Ans : None measured the content. You were drunk and unable to find a key. Remember even the rules applicable to Govt servant also do not prescribe any percentage of alcohol to prove one to be drunk in office.
2.As per sudhir Kumar are right at some point but there are no any policy of organisation where says that after drink you are not allowed to enter into premises.
Ans : you have to prove during the Inquiry that the Hospital has a policy to allow people to be in off duty. Such condition can be there by implication as it is a hospital where even patient can be expelled if drunk.
3.There are no any financial loss.
Ans : they may not be alleging financial loss they may be alleging just attempt and that is enough.
4.Organisation have to call police.
Ans : Not necessary.
5.At the time of Incidence I was not present in the office premises.
Ans : You are only confirming that you were present in the hospital
6.Here question is of Theft not drink and come into the Working premises.
Ans : Question is of both it depended upon the management what charge is levied.
7.After duty hours security Incharge is like a simple man without his charge of Security.
Ans : Still he is expected to be loyal to the organization.
8.All keys are in security custody in locker.
Ans : You have to prove in Inquiry that the keys were in custody in a locker at that time and that you were not searching the key of account deptt.
9.When Security Incharge or any security persons leave the office premises they handed over the key to next duty persons.
Ans : You have to prove during the inquiry that such key was handed over as usual and did not come to you and the key did not remain with Security incharge when you took him out to drink.
10.There are duplicate bunch of all keys is lying with Housekeeping Incharge for washing & cleaning purpose.
Ans : you have to prove during the inquiry that duplicate keys were with them and were also used by them.
11.The Housekeeping Incharge is staying in hospital 24x7.
Ans : you have to prove during the inquiry that duplicate keys were with them and were also used by them.
12.On incidence day other working staff was present.
Ans : you have to prove during the inquiry that duplicate keys were with them and were also used by them.
13.After taking key from Housekeeping I seat in emergency area to watch IPL match with other colleagues.
Ans : you have to prove during the inquiry that you were with Mr X. Y, Z at a place other than accounts deptt and before joining them you were not at accounts deptt.
14.In mail communication HR-Executive & Administrator wrote the do not take any statement from Security Incharge who was with me & He even not took written from other Office staff who saw out of the premises during the period.
Ans : You have to prove your company with him if he is willing to be defence witness. Your presence with security incharge before instance in the way you described is circumstantial evidence against you. You have to prove with evidence of other guards that security incharge did not take the key alongwith him.
15. My major concern is if HR-Executive can take written statement who saw during that period in office premises or near to Account to dept. why she can’t take written statement that I found out of the hospital premises during this incidence.
Ans : HR-Executive is not your Defence Asstt. You have to call these witnesses in the Inquiry
16.And as per timing you consider security call was of 7:10 to 7:15PM during that period I enter into premises where the incidence already taken place in my absentism.
Ans : you have to prove during the inquiry
17.In Bablu statement he wrote that he found me that I was coming down from Second floor but that time he was at Reception area where I took key from him.
So how he can see me That I was coming from Second floor. because there are 2 barriers to enter into reception area...
Ans : you have to cross examine him in the Inquiry.
Further another advise. TAKE SERIOUSLY. You have disclosed your identity, identity of Hospital, identity of witnesses on the internet. Anyone including legal adviser of the company can see this and be enlighten about the strategy.
You are in trouble needing to defend a serious charge do not complicate the matter further by unnecessary advertisement. Consult your Defence Asstt Secretly.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 06 May 2012
Thank Sudhir, u replied on my behalf.
I do not know any 8% !!I was told by you,, you were drunk!!
i know your blood in your body is app 5KG , and if you calculate 8% , amount to 400 gm absolute alcohol, equivalent to Full Bottle of commercial Whisky [42-47 % absolute OH, 750ml/ 1L] is certainly too much of alcohol. In fact a Fatal dose!!.
Beer bottle of 650 ml have 8% Alcohol means you consumed 5L= 8 bottles of beer, as much as you have blood in your body!!, That too, you consumed in short duration, not in a day.
Body can burn only a peg, 30gm = 60ml alcohol, releasing 120 calories that one need per hour as max.
Even 1% do not allow you to drive your car [ 50ml =100 ml whisky/ brdy ]
Your act do not justify you.
My clear answer to your Q1 is: YES, 8% ALCOHOL IS MUCH MORE THAN SUFFICIENT TO LOST HUMAN CONTROL. HE IS UNFIT TO WORK OR DRIVE VEHICLE.
