My company has den to give me experience and reliving letter
dimpal
(Querist) 21 October 2016
This query is : Resolved
Hello Sir/madam,
I was a good performer and based on that my company confirmed me after 3 months probation. My company manager asked me to work like 10-12 hours and I use to work almost double of what I suppose to work. Later because of my health issues I have reduced my work but still more than what I suppose to work in a day. My manager forced me to sign performance improvement plan or leave immediately so I signed it which was for 45 days period. Within 13 days they terminated me. Now they are not giving me experience and relieving letter. Please suggest What's to do?
Dimpal
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 21 October 2016
Do you have a copy of PIP signed by you and PIP policy and KRA's vs performance record?
What exactly is your objective?
To get experience and relieving letter?
Or contest the termination as well?
It is one of the possibilities that even if you get experience and relieving letter, you may get adverse comments in these due to PIP and termination and also in BGV!
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 21 October 2016
Do you have a copy of PIP signed by you and PIP policy and KRA's vs performance record?
What exactly is your objective?
To get experience and relieving letter?
Or contest the termination as well?
It is one of the possibilities that even if you get experience and relieving letter, you may get adverse comments in these due to PIP and termination and also in BGV!
Ms.Usha Kapoor
(Expert) 22 October 2016
Mr.Kumar Doab raised some pertinent points. Please answer them first.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 22 October 2016
Reply the information sought by the expert Kumar Doab.
dimpal
(Querist) 24 October 2016
No I don't have PIP copy, they didn't provide. I have only offer letter(in which they have written to pay 2 months salary on termination), Termination letter, I'd of company, salary slips, conversation with my company in which they denied to provide experience and relieving letter.
Yes I want experience and relieving letter and Salary as it was without notice.
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
How they can send you for PIP without supplying you PIP conditions, as they got signed from you?
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Experience of employee vanishes when sent for PIP. Your acceptance of PIP was your mistake that cannot be reversed.
PIP is just a prelude to terminate an employee by showing him/her as inefficient and indisciplined.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
>>> You have posted that:
"My manager forced me to sign performance improvement plan or leave immediately so I signed it which was for 45 days period. Within 13 days they terminated me...................................No I don't have PIP copy, they didn't provide. I have only offer letter(in which they have written to pay 2 months salary on termination)"
>>> Do you have your manager's threat also in conversations; sign performance improvement plan or leave immediately?
>>> Have you indeed read in offer letter and is it indeed written that ; to pay 2 months salary on termination?
Non performance, NON achieving targets is not misconduct.
Has company listed 'Non performance, NON achieving targets in list of Misconducts?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
You were forced to sign PIP.
Before signing the notice and policy was not supplied.After forced signature the copy was not provided.
It is grossly wrong to say; that 'Experience of employee vanishes when sent for PIP.'
The service certificate has to be issued.
The experience does not vanish at all!
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
You have posted that:
"Yes I want experience and relieving letter and Salary as it was without notice."
You can ask for all of these.
You can get all of these even if you were 'Workman', 'Employee', or "Manager' etc etc .
You shall need to share some more information on some more points.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 24 October 2016
agree with the advice from expert P.S. Dhingra.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
While posting such queries employee should always post basic information;
What is this establishment; Commercial, Industrial?
What is its line of business?
How many persons are employed in it?
Does standing order apply in your case; Model/Standing?
What is your designation and nature of duties?
Do you have any power to sanction (Not just recommend) leave/increment/appoint/terminate/appraise/grant OT etc etc…………..
Can anyone change/cancel your recommendations?
How many persons report to you?
You are in which state?
Your service is under probation or confirmed?
For how many months you have been working?
What is the notice period to be tendered by you or company?
What is the notice period as per appointment letter?
Have you been getting salary slips?
What was your monthly salary?
What are your normal working hours?
Do you have any evidence that you were asked to work for more than work hours (8/day) and you worked for more than it?
Did you ever claim OT?
Did you ever write to supply so called PIP policy, PIP document signed by you?
Is any reason mentioned in termination letter?
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Author need to provide information sought by the expert Kumar Doab.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Had these Managers in your company been sensible they would have supplied the service certificate to you (without any adverse comments).
Now the possibilities are that you will be troubled thru reference check,BGV, anytime,since the same Mangers,same HR personnel may not remain till your retirement from employment and anytime anyone may send reference.
Therefore you may close the matter in your favor once for all.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
It is grossly wrong to say; that 'Experience of employee vanishes when sent for PIP.'
The service certificate has to be issued.
The experience does not vanish at all!
You have posted that:
"Yes I want experience and relieving letter and Salary as it was without notice."
You can ask for all of these.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Dear Mr.Goyal,
Does your post mean that 'The experience vanishes'!
Regret I do not concur since;The experience does not vanish at all!
In this instant case also 'The experience does not vanish at all!'.
You may please post the legal position, considered by you in case of employee that has posted the query.
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Of course, if experience letter if given by the company that may also contain the stigma of inefficiency and termination on the ground of PIP, which may hinder your further employment also.
Naturally, if your manager forced you to sign performance improvement plan or leave immediately, that clearly means the management was not happy with your attitude or performance.
Needless to emphasize, experience does not mean merely the period spent in a company, but also efficiency of the employee. Moreover, when you were merely on probation, that is like training and merely for 3 months and 13 days.
So, what for you want experience letter merely for about 3 months, which may prove to be an embargo for your future career also?
However, you are free to insist on the experience letter, nobody can resist you.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
>>> You have posted that:
"I was a good performer and based on that my company confirmed me after 3 months probation. My company manager asked me to work like 10-12 hours and I use to work almost double of what I suppose to work. Later because of my health issues I have reduced my work but still more than what I suppose to work in a day. My manager forced me to sign performance improvement plan or leave immediately so I signed it which was for 45 days period. Within 13 days they terminated me. Now they are not giving me experience and relieving letter. Please suggest What's to do?.....................................I have only offer letter(in which they have written to pay 2 months salary on termination), Termination letter, I'd of company, salary slips, conversation with my company in which they denied to provide experience and relieving letter."
>>> The PIP was decided by Manager or stake holder in PIP.
The Manager must have submitted a written communique to stakeholder as per PIP policy to include your name in PIP as per PIP policy.Manager must have obtained approval.
This communication is a case document, alongwith PIP policy,PIP signed by you but not given to you.
>>> NO where in your post(s) it is mentioned that you have worked for 3 months 13days.
Assuming that you have indeed worked for 3 months 13days:::: You were good performer and based on that my company confirmed me after 3 months probation.
Thus after 3months probation ( say 90days and on 91st day) what bad happened in considered opinion of manager or stakeholder that you were hurriedly included in PIP?
Assuming that something by weird imagination/hallucination happened and if 45days period was decided, then after 91st day (when you were included in PIP) what happened in 13days that it was decided that you shall not be allowed to complete rest of 32days (45-13=32)?
It is just a practice that has happened/happening in companies that do not apply mind and simply act as violators.
That is why employers loose the cases.
Yours is apparently a good case with merits.
>>> Since you were forced to work for more than 8hrs/day (10-12d hrs/day) i.e. you were asked for 1.5 months at a salary of 1month and it took toll on your health, they decided to remove you and spoil your employ-ability.
If you were performing and your health was affected it is not misconduct and does not invite stigmatic termination.
>>> Reply pointwise to all points.
>>> Adding stigmatic conditions by BGV would be another merit in your case.
>>> You have evidence by record of conversations also.
It shall help you.
>>> There are many threads at LCI alone in which employees have posted that they have succeeded against such managers,employers without litigation.
Thru Unions, counsels specializing in Labor/Service matters, tribunals, courts of law.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
If you are facing any issues in posting send PM.
Some threads that you may find relevant;
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Whether-relieving-or-experience-letter-is-must-in-contractual-employment--614046.asp
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
I have sent link to you by PM, so that you are fully aware that even if you are not covered by labor laws ( assumed and not confirmed) you can succeed.
Moreover we have so far not tested the mettle in your managers/HR/employer.
There are instances that very able counsels specializing in Labor/service matters have resolved the matter(s) by phone calls, legal notice, in O/o Dept. of labor officials.
There are instances that employee's unions/trade union leaders have drilled sense into the heads.
You must feel confident and do not get carried away by the posts that have no merit.
Your issue can be resolved and do not let it remain unresolved.
Remain confident.
dimpal
(Querist) 24 October 2016
@Mr. Dhingra
I worked for 1 year. If it is 3 months I would have moved ahead.
As I said was working a lot almost double and reduced my work later bcz of sickness. This can be one reason and other reason I can't share here.
@ Mr Kumar ...So if possible can I ask for your number
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
There are manyb threads that you can search in search option and pick up relevant points ad get in touch with employees e.g;:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Regarding-getting-relieving-documents-619766.asp
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
There are many threads that you can search in search option and pick up relevant points ad get in touch with employees e.g;:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Employer-Harassment-on-Early-Relieving-618481.asp
The author has successfully resolved the matter without litigation and has affirmed to help other employees.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
There are many threads that you can search in search option and pick up relevant points e.g;:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/notice-period-618086.asp
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
@ Dimple,
Regret I am not available for discussions by email or phone for the queries posted at LCI Forum or Expert Section.
However remain assured that your issue can be resolved.
If you have some issues or inhibitions to post in the thread, you may send PM.
While sending PM, mention title of the thread in subject line of PM and weblink of the thread in PM so that it is easy to relate.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
The employee in the following old and illustrated thread resolved his query on his own:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/details.asp?mod_id=117489&offset=1
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Go thru it carefully and slowly:
Bengaluru: The Karnataka Labour Department has ordered a US-based IT firm to compensate a woman employee on grounds of 'illegally' terminating her services without providing valid reasons and for allegedly causing harassment.
The techie had approached the Labour department on Karnataka Women's Commission's direction, and after hearing the case, the department ordered the company to give Rs 12.5 lakh compensation to her for illegally terminating her from services, a top Labour Department official said.
The company has agreed to pay Rs 10.55 lakh after deducting taxes, but the techie, a native of Delhi who worked at the company's office here, is yet to pick up her cheque in possession of the company, the official said.
"Both the complainant and the company have agreed to withdraw the cases filed in various courts. Once the techie submits court reports on withdrawal of cases, the company will hand over the cheque to her. But for now, she is gone to Delhi and will come back soon to settle the issue," he said.
UNDER A NOTIFICATION ISSUED BY THE KARNATAKA GOVERNMENT EARLY THIS YEAR, IT COMPANIES SHOULD INFORM THE LABOUR DEPARTMENT ABOUT SUSPENSION, DISCHARGE, AND TERMINATION OF EMPLOYEES, AMONG OTHERS.
The techie was employed with the company in 2012 and her job was confirmed after serving it as a probationer for three months, the official said.
However, after sometime the techie complained about harassment by a senior and lodged complaints with various company officials without much success, he said.
The company terminated her from service in October, 2013, he added. Not giving up, the techie slapped a legal notice seeking a clarification on the "illegal" termination and asking for the decision to be revoked, the official said.
However, the company stuck to its decision.
The techie ultimately approached the women's commission, and after going through the complaint, it recommended the case to the labour department, the official said.
After hearing both parties, the labour department decided that the techie should be awarded compensation for "unfair treatment" and termination from service, the official said.
http://www.news18.com/news/india/karnataka-labour-department-asks-us-it-firm-to-pay-rs-12-5-lakh-to-techie-for-sacking-her-724144.html
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Go thru following old and illustrated thread at:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/Duress-used-by-private-concerns-139262.asp
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
OK, if prefer you may insist through a legal notice for your experience certificate if that can prove beneficial to you in any manner.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 25 October 2016
You may carefully go thru the publication posted for you and ask employee's/trade unions leaders.
The senior officials of Dept. of Labor have awarded huge penalty to employer and huge compensation to employee, that was terminated under the guise of PIP.
Performance is dependent on many factors that may be beyond control of employee.
In your case opportunity natural justice was not provided as you were terminated before 45days of PIP.
Permanent solution is get rid of fabricated and concocted guise of PIP and termination.
Service certificate has to be issued.
Service card has provision for recording 'Commendations' and not stinkers.
You need to build good resolve within you and understand that you have a good case.
Do not get carried away or subdued.
Pots all information,pointwise.
You don't have to post the name of any employer,logo etc etc..............You can maintain confidentiality.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 25 October 2016
You can proceed as guided by the expert Kumar Doab.
dimpal
(Querist) 27 October 2016
It's mentioned in employee handbook issued this year that
- we do assist terminated employees in every way to find a job.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 27 October 2016
You may not get immediate relief for one or other excuse from such reference in employees handbook.
You have to search new job yourself.
Guest
(Expert) 27 October 2016
When you have found the provision in the employee handbook, what is your hitch in asking for their assistance, as per the provisions? You may draw attention of HR on that provision.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 27 October 2016
One Job is that you need now.
Thereafter also you need to work.
You should get your clean service certificate,relieving letter.
You somewhat seem to be afraid!
Why?
What are you afraid of?
Did you register with NSR?
Did you share the PIN with HR/employer?
Are you afraid of blacklisting?
etc etc
dimpal
(Querist) 31 October 2016
@Mr Dhingra,
I have already asked them on which they denied saying we don't provide experience letter on termination.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 31 October 2016
Did you ask in writing?
Did they reply in writing?
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 31 October 2016
May Proceed as advised by the expert Kumar Doab.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 31 October 2016
Responded in threads and PM's.
Full facts of the matter required to proceed further.
